Vim: hi. I'm Vimla Appadoo.
Tim: And I'm Tim Panton
Vim: and you're listening to the distributed future podcast. Today today, we're talking about behavioral insights and how we can use technology to learn more about what users are saying and doing and the decisions that they make.
And it might sound really obvious to us now, but a lot of the technology that were using to to sell to people to track behavioral to Design Services is fairly new. So things like eye tracking software and heat maps online and all of these kind of tools are just being understood to tell one part of the story.
Whereas there's a whole kind of qualitative story that sits alongside what the numbers mean and I think that's really interesting when we look at the future of services.
Tim: This is so so these are things where you're You're Building at like a website or an app or something and you and you want to try and optimize it to [00:01:00] get a particular effect.
And you do that by like basically putting test users in a in a lab and try and work out what they do or how do I mean what kind of trying to understand what the process is?
Vim: Well, so Guy he'd be interviews with his his business specializes in understanding people's behavior. And they they do a mix of kind of a psychological analysis of how people's past experiences and build up and thought processes lead to a decision alongside the kind of standard ux testing that who's quite commonplace now, so the eye tracking the testing and it.
Fireman looking at the clicks the hover rates where we move on a screen all of those things and he puts the two together and works with the person the user to explain their thought process. So rather than taking that information and [00:02:00] isolation, bringing the user back into the room and having them explain what was going on as they were they were doing the action or whatever it might be and I think what's particularly interesting is how you do that in the offline space.
So how you can do Behavior insites. Like watching people shop in a shopping center, or the way we move around a cinema or all of these kind of small habits that we have. That little was our decision making
Tim: right, right. I mean I've seen a really I mentioned this I think in one of the other podcast, but I saw a really cool thing which was foot
tracking round Supermarket, so it's interesting or a shop. So they're interested in football, you know, or do you do do do things in how do you make decisions? But they did it in a kind of interestingly privacy sensitive way in the sense that they just watch people's feet and you can tell a lot from from a person's feet.
You can track a [00:03:00] unique pair of shoes around the shop. So that's kind of easy. But also you can tell like if they with somebody you can tell if they're you know, if they're pushing a trolley or not and whole bunch of other stuff. You can tell about them without necessarily having to invade like deep into who they are and you know the rest of it about about them, which I think is really interesting strategy.
Vim: Mmm Yeah, I think is what's really what's really interesting as well is how how we are conscious how we can become conscious of that decision-making. So what, what's interesting that guy explain there's when you bring someone back in the room to have them watch over their behavior or pattern or decision-making?
The depth of insight that we actually have looking back at ourselves and understanding our thought process and routing it back to past experiences is quite extraordinary [00:04:00] and it's not until we reflect back on those that we realize how choosing one product over another is actually almost predetermined to a certain extent based on all of the past experiences that we've had.
Tim: Right? Right and I suppose there's also a bunch of sort of subliminal triggers there that you know where I live. I had a, you know had a bad experience with another product. That was primarily white. And so you know, this this white logo on a black background isn't doing it for me or something. So it might be kind of might be as those associations needn't necessarily be logical is what
I guess I'm saying so I mean I saw the subliminal aspect I think is really interesting.
It's like and does he manage to like dig into those as well and I suppose that's like asking people's histories helps you find that out.
Vim: Yes, I think key to Guys businesses at having a mixed team with mix abilities from different backgrounds. And I mean I preached on about diversity a lot but really having [00:05:00] that breadth of skills is massively important.
So everything from ux designers to psychologists a behavioral scientist to data analyst all sitting in a room to understand a person's behaviors, decisions, thought process. Hugely beneficial and I think technology helps us not only visualize that data, but present it in a way that helps us make decisions and I guess even in the future have technology make those decisions as well.
I think there's a really interesting space about how we can use technology to, not just be based on numbers but to bring in that qualitative element in decision-making
Tim: but to what extent does the value feedback to the user? I mean, I can understand how the customer the person who's building the website whether can get value out of out of you know, understanding how their customers are behaving and how they user are behaving and what they might do to improve that like the click-through [00:06:00] or whatever it is that if their goal is but I'm curious to know what,
what might do what might work for the user how does the user benefit from that
Vim: and even more tailored experience? I would guess I think it's hard to tread that line between overstepping the boundaries of complete personalizations that where it feels creepy and making it easy as possible for you based on your individual needs and I think that's where we're trying to get to so that all of the things we interact with are
based on your preferences out the past decisions. We've made all of the tiny things that we take into consideration to make a decision whether it's online or offline and I think augmented reality and kind of the way that we're wearing more wearable tech what only enhance that as well.
Tim: Yeah, I bumped into somebody who wears a ring that and it measures his does his sleep [00:07:00] tracking now, he was saying that it was like he tried various other sleep trackers and they were just irritating to wear in bed.
But this thing he said it's you know, this ring. He's quite happy to wear it pretty much all the time occasionally takes it off to charge it. But it's like he said it's really no it doesn't give him any grief and I think it does his it does his heart rate and you know skin. Conductivity or something.
I can't remember, a couple of measurements anyway, but yeah it really I mean talking about, you know, personalized Tech that's something that you could easily imagine yourself wearing like 95% of the time you might take it off to do the washing up but you know apart from that. So yeah, I mean and that's traveling with him the whole time so it's like it knows everything about him.
Vim: Yeah. And I think we're not that far away from from organizations putting all this data together to I mean, you see the likes of Apple during it putting all of this data together the [00:08:00] to create personalized recommendation system processes based on user as an individual and I think we're seeing that happen in polar opposites. Its on one side the Spectrum you have personalization based on all your user data. He was a person versus that standardization of service and creating homogeneous, service.
Tim: Right? So I think for me the risk there is that you you kind of make it too easy and that people don't like people aren't just products of their past.
There are also products of like decisions. That bothers me slightly that
Vim: what do you mean?
Tim: Well, yeah. Okay. You like all of this information is aimed at making our lives easier, but like somehow I feel like thinking about a decision rather than just having it.
Like this is the decision your bound to make somehow undermines free [00:09:00] will or maybe I'm being like jesuitical about that.
Vim: No, I agree. But I think the way you present options to people is what's interesting. So the top five options for someone. Of your will decision-making background opt for these five things and then you still get a choice of those five out of those five.
Tim: Yeah, I mean playing again kind of playing the other side of that is isn't that what went wrong with with facebook's timeline and Google's and YouTube that it shows you more of the things that you reacted to and it digs you into a, you know, in Facebook status case of a bubble and in in YouTube's case, possibly into more and more extremist behavior so like I think that's sort of like I don't most want the one of those five to be a completely off the wall Choice like totally random that you would [00:10:00] never I mean, you know, I don't know if you've actually think one example of this but actually quite like those sort of you know, you wouldn't you might not have thought of this but how about this one picks because they're kind of they're interesting I think.
Vim: Do you think technology can be smart enough to take those into consideration based on your personality? So you will have the people that never want to deviate from their their status quo. Then you have the people like you that do you want those oddballs thrown in and you think technology can learn that Nuance about us as individuals to be able to offer it to us?
Tim: Yeah, I think technology can it's not too clear to me that businesses can it's not clear that it's a business that it's commercially viable doing that.
Vim: Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I think it's really interesting that the way we use behavioral insights to help businesses make decisions that there your right.
It's [00:11:00] kind of. At the moment it just sits on that path of just key give people what they want and keep giving people what they want without any question on whether it's right all that a trick question of Free Will and choice.
Tim: Yeah. I mean, I think you know, you can kind of I'm tryng to I think of how seen this done that works.
So so I'm not very impressed with the recommendations I get from say iTunes for example, but what I do do is I will look at like what's new what's free or or something? They're promoting and even if it's something I'm not like immediately thinking hey that looks like a great thing. I might try a track or watch a trailer or something just to get a sense of like what that is and I think encouraging that behavior is like really really valuable as a sort of to stop us from shrinking as a species.
Vim: Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. [00:12:00] I think that's a really good point to leave our conversation and hand over to Guy who runs his own business in Leeds understanding Behavior insights and you working with large-scale organizations to offer deeper insights and their users and customers to tell that story both from are quantitative point of view and qualitative and matching those things together.
Is really really interesting chat and I can't wait to hear some of the feedback for
Tim: I'm looking forward to listening to it
Guy: my name's Guy Redwood I'm the founder of simple Usability we are a behavioral research business. My background is its digital without almost regeneration of CD-ROM and I've just always been fascinated with how people engage with tech particularly when it Delights them or get something done.
I think it's a real enabler. So and I think the way that people engage with it at [00:13:00] a subconscious level is really really fascinating especially in research because I think still bulk of market research that happens at the moment. There's a lot of opinion in it, you know, they don't listen to how people actually make decisions and you know, we make decisions faster than we're conscious yourself.
Vim: Yeah,
Guy: so it's really key to tap into that.
Vim: Yeah, definitely and I think all of the decisions we make are based on every experience that we've ever had. So where our brain is constantly collecting information from our interactions or experiences the things we learn to then make us make it kind of flash decision in the moment, but for people that don't know could you give a bit of an insight into what behavioral insights means?
Guy: Yes, so we see I think in some ways people think of it as market research but and a [00:14:00] lot of market research people trying cluster sort of personalities or personas whereas Behavior you're looking at attitudes and behavioral traits and I think digital is really driven. So. in a world before digital I like to think of ways to conform a lot when we stepped out of our houses and we walk down the streets and you went shopping and you would pretty much conform to various social norms.
Whereas I think digital really encourages people to be individuals and it really encourages then a lot of very interesting behaviors and allows people to really sort of blossom I think as people and so you know the way that you you buy things or read things is [00:15:00] influenced by what it is you're trying to achieve, you know, if you're buying I don't know fizzy soda.
It depends whether you're buying it for a kitties party or if you're going to a party where you want to impress the host of that party and and in a world that's moving very very fast. And you know, there was a article yesterday about. Some of the health sides of what we drink and I think the speed of media now means that people react very quickly.
I mean if we just look at what's happening to Plastics.
Vim: Yeah
Guy: when you agree or don't agree with that it's very impressive how people have got on board with that.
Vim: And and and and how is an organization to bring all of these different factors into consideration. So not just the stuff that's happening on online.
But everything that's happened in a person's past experience or like their personal implications and their decision making.
Guy: So one of the [00:16:00] things that we're really proud of is that we are team here from a very strong psychology background. And so they are schooled in the ideas of how you can effect people's behavior.
So I real fundamental level we will observe people doing what they naturally do. So if it's about ski holidays, then we will find people who we know go on ski holidays, but we won't ask them about ski holidays because that seeding language and we all we know that that changes Behavior. So we will ask them about what they're doing later on in the year and at some point they will then talk about they would they will introduce the terminology that they are, you know, they might talk talk about chalets.
We need to book a chalet in chamonix. And so at no point of they said ski holiday. Yeah, and they start to build a picture in their head of what they want to do and then [00:17:00] our team sort of is trained in mirroring language. So they never seed language and this all comes from. We've been using eye tracking equipment for about 12 years now and wait we can see what people are looking at.
So we got glasses so we can send them out into the big wide world and see how they look at the world go shopping and then we got eye trackers that you have in screens so we can put this put them in front of TVs or. What browsers and we can see them researching things? And what we learned is that if a roof one of our researchers asked the question that was introducing in your language, we would see people looking for those words on screen that the.
Researcher head-to-head used. So if I said to you go and look at jeans we would see you seeking out the word jeans, but that language you may not have think that you know, you might think of them as [00:18:00] trouser. We may not even buy jeans. So it's really really important. To observe behavior and as they are carrying out the tasks and they usually quite basic in the sense of just go and do your shopping.
Yeah fill out this tax form or mortgage application. For this look, you know so they don't talk because there's one of the things that we quickly real saw happening is that if you ask people to think out loud, you know, tell me what you're doing. Tell me your thought process. Yeah, I'm you could see them looking really hard at the screen and trying to work out became a problem as opposed to just something that they were doing.
Yeah, they really change their behavior. And what's really nice with eye tracking is that we can then play back a session to them afterwards. It has captured their natural behavior. And then when you see your own eye tracking you re acts as a [00:19:00] visual cue to recall subconscious Behavior your memories and people can give you commentary.
So again, I'll guys are trained at stimulating recalls, so they're not after rationalized thinking they are literally I'm going to show you something and just talk me through what was happening at that point and it's really fascinating because people can recall emotion, right? Within an hour I think is the maximum you'd want to do people recall is incredibly strong, you know, the human brain is amazing and people are surprised at how they are making decisions.
Vim: I bet
Guy: it's familiar to them. They know that's how they're making decisions, but the process what they avoid, so people are really good at filtering. And especially when they sort of on a mission and they have a task in mind over the years and you think your reference this at [00:20:00] the beginning the conversation that they bring all their experiences as to how they see the world and how they filter things.
Yeah. It's a day they tackle a task. With all these filters and then when you play back to them feel say oh my God, I was looking for that or when I saw that word it meant this and I think language is incredibly powerful.
Vim: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely and then what do you think the biggest impact of technology has been in the way that you've done things over the last 10 years or so,
Guy: I think that's just the way of conducting research on the way of people using Tech.
Vim: Well, yeah, but I say you mentioned. The that could be a news article yesterday that impact your decision making today. It's just one kind of example of the way the media might be influencing us, but I think specifically how you're able to use our tracking devices and capture some of those behaviors that we might have not been able to before
Guy: so one of the things is really [00:21:00] powerful is so we we're familiar with our own behavior.
But when you show a group of people, this is how your customers are behaving you can build really who can empathize with with that they can say, oh that person thinks differently to me.
Vim: Yeah,
Guy: and they can you allow them to build models that they trust and believe and then you can then start to
group behaviors and say was actually five attitudes here and I stopped building really strong Journeys into everything. I think with what's really nice now, I think three years ago when we started the project we would say is this on mobile phones. Is this on a desktop or laptop laptop tablet is it paper is a TV.
They we would do discrete pieces of research. Whereas now we just talk about the [00:22:00] journey, you know where this Journey starts. Yeah, and we just look at the whole thing. And we you know, where did this start this idea? Somebody wanting to do this this task and then you can just observe the whole thing people are so it's you know, we talk about the old days months the world and five years ago.
Vim: Yeah.
Guy: I'm you would want to go into somebody's home and watch them use the laptop that was down the side of the sofa. Yeah, people would pass the laptop around the house and it would share it. Whereas now people have got so many different devices we're quite happy to jump between devices. We're quite happy.
Vim: Yeah.
Guy: Sure. I mean you hear all sorts of fascinating strategy is about someone's telling me that their Son realize that if brought. This moment MacBook Pro close to her his Mom's [00:23:00] watch. Yeah, it would open because they've now got this authentication. Wow. This is interesting. Yeah had to you know switch that off.
So there's a I just think there's some really cool stuff that is empowering and you've got this generation of people coming through who are quite comfortable talking to things voice. Is here is happening. And I think facial recognition stuff is really interesting. I love the way I could in a public environment.
I'm not worried about keying in a PIN number because of the iPhone it just sort of it just recognize you and he's very very secure.
Vim: Yep.
Guy: So it's you've got your people like me who are in order of where all this come from and then you've got. Sort of the public who have even learned to use this technology.
All have no idea where the tech is come from and just take it for [00:24:00] granted. Yeah, and that is I think both ends of the scale really really interesting
Vim: it really is and I think it's interesting how we use a mishmash of all of it. So it's not just that all of our devices are facial recognition, but you might also then receive a text message that gives you the secure code every once in a while.
So make sure it's still you've actually using it or you kind of have to. Scale of high-tech low-tech stuff that's being used to help us navigate those Journeys and keep us safe and protect our data and all of this different stuff to the point where we don't even have to think about it anymore as Citizens or users
Guy: no, I mean, it was interesting.
You know payments is still work. We at the early days of the thing some really exciting stuff about how you can pay people, you know, had my hair cut last week and I received a barber just basically said right I'll send you a text message. I'll send you a photo of [00:25:00] my bank details and just pay me
Vim: right
Guy: and I think there was a high level of trust there because.
There's a digital footprint that there's an audit trail of however booked my appointment and exposes various, you know details and and it's just so nice that you can within a you know, 30 seconds. pay, someone digitally get straight into their bank account. They've got an audit trail that can sit down with their account.
I think it's just really really well joined up and I think you know apple is really interesting what they're doing with their credit card.
Vim: Yes.
Guy: I need to get my head around that but I just know okay when Apple think about things and innovating the space. There's a good chance.

Vim: It's going to change it.
Guy: yeah. Yeah,
Vim: something's going to happen. Now
Guy: again, you just want to you know to say it's some point someone's going to show their grandma and then [00:26:00] all of a sudden you're going to be queuing somewhere and someone who traditionally would have been discounted as a tech user will just be paying for something with a once use credit card
number and they will say it just works. They won't know how why or what's going into that and then you sit back as a researcher and kind of go. So, what does that mean? How you down? Because that will then enable things that they haven't even thought of
Vim: and how do you anticipate those changes or do how do you cater for them?
Guy: I think just got to what I mean speak to someone today and she was like saying about. Remember the family has got Parkinson's disease.
Vim: Yeah
Guy: and struggles to use a laptop and has just been introduced to Alexa. And it's game-changing. Yeah, they can just ask stuff and get answers that at least on to all the stops and he's just an amazing enabler.
I [00:27:00] think we just, the joined up Journey is Limitless. The opportunitie is just infinite. So it's. We've got to play it has to work. I think we're struggling with voice making it work. Well and I do think it's very it's a divided world because you got those people that Alexa understand. And then you've got people who it just doesn't and I don't know when we will fix that.
I'm sure we will but there's a high level of accuracy. They're already there and all we need to do to teach people just say this and it will work.
Vim: Was it teaching people as a teaching the technology? So I think it's really interesting how much bias what unconscious bias is built into code and as a behavioral insights researcher that how
you overcome that bias.
Guy: I think you've got to be very careful of using [00:28:00] existing data and I think a lot of I think you know, ux research, especially the conversion rate optimization teams like to base a lot of decisions on existing data and that can be a lot of be a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I think you've got to just keep a really open mind and just keep thinking, innovating, trialing.
We've got loads of tools now that you can prototype things. You can test Concepts. I mean, we do a lot of voice testing using a Wizard of Oz set of methodologies and especially where I love that. You can do a joined up Journey where you can be doing a bit of Boise or using an ivr system that then jumps you out to a text message.
Vim: Yeah,
Guy: that you can then engage with the content, take you to a website because just click on the link and it all just [00:29:00] works. So I think it's definitely just keep a really open mind and I think measure I think data is really really dangerous because. You look at data with your model and your current understanding of what that data is saying and there's lots of really good examples of you know, like what they looked at planes in the world wars where they looked at the bullet holes
on the planes when they came in those that London to look to said right we need to put more armor on the parts of the planes of
Vim: yeah
Guy: bullet holes in and they were saying that actually you need to look at the planes that didn't make it back because though those with the bullets that actually brought the plane down.
Vim: Yeah.
Guy: So yeah, I think that's I think a lot of people are very confident in that they know they feel that they know how to look at [00:30:00] data or behavior. And it's and it's the side. No, absolutely not the whole thing about a good researcher is you always keep an open mind you always learning.
Vim: Yeah.
Guy: Yeah, I still think it blows my mind that you know from a generation that we had paper maps in the car. You want to buy your other survey or your 80 said in you would navigate by paper now. We're now at a point where you can just basically talk to a system. It will do give you a range of routes.
You can call preference the saying it will even tell you the costs of their he's also stuff.
Vim: Yeah,
Guy: it just gets you that and he's live updated and just just keep going and you know, you've got the augmented reality moving into Maps. We're off to the one of the aisles in the Hebrides in a couple of weeks.
Vim: Yeah,
Guy: and I've used streetview. [00:31:00] I've looked around the places of doing a bit of a recce trying to work out which features do we want to go to? Yeah. Can I drive my my camper van down that road? Yes. This is a phenominal.
Vim: Yeah the amount in see what actually and even the crowdsourcing of it. So being able to see the reviews of local restaurants online.
And life not just from local people that from people in a similar situation or things like that. And I think the way that Google have used augmented reality and their Maps now is that absolute Game Changer, especially for me because I get lost everywhere. So being able to hold up my phone and it showed me that I'm going in the right direction.
It's just mind-blowing.
Guy: Yes,
Vim: so and I know you're doing it over with kind of artificial intelligence at the moment as well. So, how do you think what do you what do you think the next five years? It's like behavioral insights and changes to what we are learning and decisions that we makeing.
Guy: I think we just have a huge amount of data and I'm [00:32:00] really really passionate about just trying to keep it open just just learn try and spot patterns.
I think I think a lot of insights is is really basically is too crude and to on average. This is what happens is they actually the next layer below that. You know all the data you use to make your average is quite varied and it's actually that getting to that next layer and it's really really hard and you know at the moment when you come back after doing some research and you're trying to Cluster behaviors and sent it back into the team.
There's a lot of. Little bit of spreadsheet number crunching and then there's a lot of just using your brain and you're trying to put things up on walls and screens and you just try to use your brain to see patterns and
Vim: yeah
Guy: develop hypotheses and I think. May I use just [00:33:00] this that's what it does it can go in and look at stuff find patterns and then you can put that up back into projects and say is this real is there actually is something here?
So I think it helps create unknown feedback. Loops that we can explore.
Vim: Yeah, and and how do you personally go about matching the kind of statistical concepts of data alongside the qualitative storytelling or that kind of gut feeling that someone might have about what's going on or what it more importantly why it's happening
Guy: my I love qualitative research.
Yeah, and so that's sort of my Passion and then but I don't have a lot of our customers they like big numbers. So the. I've supports that and then I just I see Gathering data as a way of you know today we've learned [00:34:00] this. This is our view. This is our model. This is what we think is going on and then you're using data to confirm or evolve that on
understanding but also just to because people change behaviors very quickly you're looking for new opportunities or new understandings because you know, we think what we're trying to do with Spirit, you know, ux work is make things easier and more pleasurable and I think there's a huge hole in research about brand.
I think this has been a real race to the bottom of price and nobody wins that that for thing but people are prepared to pay for a branded experience as long as that experience is genuine and it gives it gives its value for money. So I think data [00:35:00] helps you track that
Vim: yeah.
Guy: Yeah.
Vim: Yeah, and I guess thinking forward if you had to name one bit of technology or change that's going to impact your day-to-day work
what would it be?
Guy: Augmented reality? Oh just. I think the last time I felt this excited about tech was when I tried virtual reality for the first time, you know, we bought an Oculus.
Vim: Yeah,
Guy: that's that we tried it in the office and it was just like wow, this is good. Yeah, and then you thought what's the application of it as a why don't you know apart from gaming there's training.
It's incredible Tech, but and you can do some clever stuff with virtual tours. of resorts things like that, but I think they are is just everything from DIY, you know measuring things. I just think there's lots of we we [00:36:00] have no idea where it's going to go but it's and we've seen all the science fiction movies with the you know, a Minority Report.
I think, you know the systems that we're building to unto analyze our research, you know, we talked about Minority Report, you know. We just need to get stopped up on the big screen and we need to start using our hands to
Vim: yeah
Guy: shape and bend and look it's tough It's it's it would be really useful to be able to manipulate data with our hands.
So I think they AR is. It's going to be really really good, you know, and it was two hands are tied. No playing with this in a voice.
Vim: Yeah
Guy: at a level to it. So I think we're pretty much there. And you know, I think leap have got some amazing demos starting to just Yeah scratch the surface a mile of [00:37:00] their you know, where they've got menus popping out of your hand and you want
Vim: yeah
Guy: things.
It's just wow,
Vim: I'm even more excited for the next stage of that where it's just based on what you're thinking. So not necessarily even have to have your hand movement. It's just done on your brain waves or yeah, just just your thought processes or eyes or whatever it might be
Guy: and will and I think it was just adopted so quickly.
Yeah. That you just won't see I think there's some. I was a huge fan of the Battlestar Galactica reboot. Yes. They tackled a lot of really big Concepts in there. Yeah, and then the idea of them to the offshoot Series where they talk about a virtual reality world and people uploading themselves decide.
You know that Tech is stuff that we're watching on YouTube is here. It's kind of people talking and it's there's some big [00:38:00] big questions in there to sort of get our heads around but people will adopt it people will love it
Vim: but I mean saying that Google Glass tried to try to implement and it didn't take off.
So what what do you think the difference is now
Guy: shocking right? Okay. We we we got our hands on it in a pub we started playing with it and it was it was good jobs in the pub because it was comedy.
Vim: Okay,
Guy: I think it got you thinking about how you could use it. Well that whole bit of you know, how you activate it how you talk to it?
The tiny little screen is I think is there's a very early concept and I think the tech was needed to be a lot more but I think it will happen, you know, we will see people I don't know where to be contact lenses or just glasses. You know, the Leap Headset is very [00:39:00] very funky.
Vim: Yeah,
Guy: very distinctive and it's whether we're going to have something that is very disruptive and very, you know, you're clearly that someone's going to have it or whether it's going to be quite discreet Tech.
I don't know. I mean, I think you know, we're getting stronger and stronger word. Wearing bolder clothes. So it might be accessible to just have headsets.
Vim: Yeah
Guy: are very visible.
Vim: Yeah. Yeah, it's become more accepted as the norm that that's just what we do like we wear headphones over our ears. We this year we're doing it already whether we realize it or not.
Guy: Well I mean people wear these huge headphones?
Vim: Yeah,
Guy: it always makes me laugh. You know, I've watched headphones get smaller, and
Vim: I know
Guy: And now we've got these huge ear warmers on them
Vim: well I do use mine as ear warmers. So but I think that's the same change we've seen in Mobile [00:40:00] phones as well went through a phase of how small can you get it?
So now almost having a phone tablet or Phablet of it doesn't matter as long as I can do what I need to on the device.
Guy: And that's a I mean. So you're because my phone has got so big it can only fit in certain Pockets. Yeah, which is why I have a you know real love for my Apple watch because I was finding that my phone was ringing and I couldn't I couldn't find my iPhone.
I was missing text messages because. It was in a pocket that was in my jacket pocket because you're missing the vibrations you think so.
Vim: Yeah,
Guy: it's like a used more Tech to solve a tech problem. And I do find it fascinating that I hit an age where. My eyesight is started to fail. I've had really good eyesight up to a point and now I struggle to see things and it's all do I need a bigger phone.
Do I need to start wearing glasses? [00:41:00] So yeah, it's. This is fascinating
Vim: it is it really is. Well, I'd like to draw that to an end now and I says anything else you'd like to say about the future of Behavioral insights
Guy: No, I think it's it's exciting. There's a real Revolution that people aren't aware of going on.
And it's just an absolute joy to see it really empowering people. I mean, I'd love a three-word service that's going on. I think there's a real Revolution there of giving people directions to you know, what is it 10 meters? No one meter Square, isn't it? The three words location service? So I don't know, there's a lot of innovation a lot of exciting things and it's great as we know with what we do is just sit there and watch people just normal people that you know, adopt and use it.
Vim: Yeah. [00:42:00] That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time. I've really enjoyed speaking to you. So it's got me really excited about the future of research and then the role it plays in shaping the future of products and services that were using it's nice to be reminded that I'm not the only one that's putting the two together as well.
Guy: And it's good. Thank you,