A virtual year of Distributed future podcast

[00:00:00] Vim: hi, this is Vimla Appadoo
[00:00:05] Tim: and I'm Tim Panton
[00:00:07] Vim: and you're listening to the distributed put and you're listening to the distributed future podcast. Today. We're doing slightly something slightly different and we're going to do a bit of an overview of all of the podcast to date and talk about why we really set this up and where we hope it's going to go
[00:00:23] Tim: So the funny thing is I realized that this is actually the 26th when I was just like putting this together, I realize it's the 26th episode and if we're doing that every two weeks that's a Year's worth of podcast turns out that it actually isn't quite on the calendar. But like let's think of it as an anniversary podcast and then go from there
[00:00:43] Vim: amazing
[00:00:43] Tim: It's amazing that we've actually done 26 of them. Looks like you know, it's quite cool and and know and there's some great stuff in there actually.
[00:00:51] Vim: Yeah, when I think back over the caliber of people that we've managed to get on the podcast but also for the various topics that we've covered. Yeah, I'm really proud of it
[00:01:00] Tim: You know, it's nice and I think there's sort of like you say the quality and the diversity and the sort of just the tone of it like, you know, everyone I mean, I think I said this to you the other day like everyone I get like. He says some things I have to go in think about it, which is just great
[00:01:17] You know, she really really what your kind of aiming for in this some it's sort of kind of why why I wanted to do it in the first place and you know, I don't want it we could have yeah, we kind of talked about why we were doing it, but maybe we've never told anybody else.
[00:01:31] Vim: Yeah, I mean. Tim I was kind of what 26 episodes go
[00:01:36] What was it that was going through your head when you wanted to set this up and get going with it.
[00:01:39] Tim: Well, I had a bunch of kind of weird things going on that one of them tells you the story about was like walking down the street in Berlin and with a friend of a friend and I said, you know how you know what you do
[00:01:52] And you said I'm a modern locksmith and what is a modern locksmith? So he said, well basically that keys are completely useless these days all of like classic keys are useless. - why - well because if you take a photograph of them or anybody takes a photograph as a I can 3D print and I can get into your house
[00:02:10] And if you're if you're if that photograph is geotagged a even though we're your house is. So I am thinking was okay and I said so being a geek is all about electronic locks. He said well, they're equally vulnerable to what Harvind and I were talking about few months ago software-defined radio attacks
[00:02:28] So it's like, okay so like keys are dead. What do we do? So we're actually you end up needing to. To you need a lock of physical lock that has Electronic cryptographic Component. So I'm just having this conversation. That's like took about as long as it did to have that explanation. I've had my mind blown I this is the like the future of locks has just been sort of laid out to me on a Berlin Street whilst we're dragging a friend sofa around and I'm thinking there's there's there's knowledge is out there and we should like be wouldn't it be fun to go out and find out what like there are other things like that that one could learn so there was that side of it and then there was this thing like those are people who don't necessarily hear from and so it's like it was a question of trying to find people who knew this stuff who would talk to us and who would like he wouldn't necessarily otherwise have heard from and I think that was the sort of where we overlapped in it in our interest wasn't it
[00:03:20] Vim: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think for similar reasons. I really wanted to one try something new because I've never podcaster before and I know that you've dabbled in it in the past, but I also wanted to be able to. Open my mind and experience different conversations around things that I had no idea about so that Lofts locksmith example being a great one just hearing that story and being able to try and understand what that might mean for myself and for others and yeah get to grips with all of this new stuff that's going on
[00:03:47] Tim: and there is a lot of it
[00:03:48] I mean, I sort of feel like the old guy saying like, you know, the pace of change is hotting up but I actually do think it is. I think there's a lot of change sort of coming towards us at the moment and it's some of. Is is great. So it's fantastic and some of its kind of needs a bit of an eye kept on it and I think one of the things that we can do with this is sort of help people be informed about like what's coming down the pipe and maybe understand how to deal with that better perhaps
[00:04:16] Vim: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely and what another really interesting aspect to me is the sense of building a community around these conversations as well. So, how can you Include more people in conversations like this and open open up for debate and conversation and discussion in a way that we often forget to do
[00:04:37] We stay within the circles that we like enjoy discussing it with or it's easy to discuss it with and how can you build a community that challenges that?
[00:04:45] Tim: Yeah. I mean, I love the episode with Melissa Pierce talking about and she was specifically talking about cannabis education. But but what the sort of bigger lesson that came out
[00:04:55] It was this idea of mixing the online meetups with physical actual real meetups in cities and and the trust that you built up in the in the physical meet up, you could then kind of continue into the virtual space thought that that the way that that conversation went was again, this is one of those eye openers you thinking
[00:05:19] Okay. How does you know that's how it works in that space and then you start to wonder. How could you how could you make that work in? In related spaces or in your own practice and I you know, I think that's that when that happens in one of these conversations. It's a real win for me.
[00:05:34] Vim: Yeah, and I think similarly the episode with Penny speaking around how you can get people to come together over something that's completely different
[00:05:43] So just being outdoors brings together people have a common desire of common interest. But from so many different walks of life to then have these conversations. I think that's a great Twist on it to actually find something outside of your normal and trash or the things you would describe yourself as and group together around that and see what conversations happen
[00:06:02] Tim: Yeah. I mean, I think what what's interesting about that is that you might think that they're outside your circle and outside particularly outside your work practice and therefore not, you know, not necessarily relevant to what you're doing at work and whatever but in practice like. In year or twos time they might be and and and you know, that might some insight from that might actually be something that you then take into work session and I think that that sort of aspect is also really exciting
[00:06:33] Vim: Yeah. Yeah. It's really exciting. Especially when you find almost that secret secret commonalities with people that you just would have anticipated before
[00:06:41] Tim: right right for sure and I think think those are you know, the spirit of that and trying to get that sort of sense. I don't know how we would be interesting to see how we should like take this this forward and actually updated their work while I'm in the process of updating the website a little bit
[00:06:56] So there's actually going to be like our Twitter handles will be on it. And so if people have got kind of feedback they can tweet at us and tell us what we're doing wrong or right or whatever and you know and get some feedback into our community which we sort of neglected to do. We talked about Community
[00:07:13] We've never actually built one ourselves which one
[00:07:16] Vim: True
[00:07:16] Tim: I don't know. I'm not sure that's the mistake. I think podcast sort of I don't know what I'm learning about. That's also fascinating. The whole business about learning about the mechanisms of podcast so many we talked a huge amount about that we did with Vic actually
[00:07:30] See I'm but that's been been fun. How many how many podcasters out there are out there and like what the tools are and all that's been a total Revelation to me.
[00:07:40] Vim: Yeah, but equally I when I listen to a podcast I don't consider myself to be a part of a community related to that podcast either
[00:07:49] Tim: some of them do though Like Nightvale does
[00:07:51] Vim: . Well does yeah, yeah. Just try actually I've never thought of it that way.
[00:07:55] Tim: I think it's partly to do with the way that people want what people want from from why like why they're doing the podcast and I think if you've got a if you're trying to build a like a financial structure around it, then you probably do need to like tie people in more closely like that
[00:08:10] Whereas we're not no, we're not doing this for the money. We're doing this for the conversations, basically.
[00:08:17] Vim: Yeah, that's a little different. Yeah. Yeah. You're right there actually, what do you enjoy the most? Doing a podcast.
[00:08:24] Tim: Oh talking to people like, you know, just that it's an excuse to talk to people who and get them to open up a little bit about something that I know typically very little about which is just great
[00:08:36] Vim: Yeah same actually and also asking them questions that they might not have been asked before because of the nature of our podcast and not knowing. The not be experts in the industry is always that was speaking about being able to ask things from a different perspective. Really. I really enjoy
[00:08:50] Tim: Yeah, I mean it has its downsides though. And I remember interviewing was Annie Curry and and she was she said this thing about how the data center power consumption was doubling every 18 months. I was completely floored by that. I've simply I didn't know it and I was like dude. I was actually pretty shocked
[00:09:10] There's a yeah, I really and I really did. You know, I edit these before they cut out a bit and I edited that because like there wasn't really any point in me sounding completely incoherent for several seconds, but I was completely floored by that. It's like really sad that you know, and so those moments of like suddenly realizing a
[00:09:34] Getting completely surprising answer from from from the interviewee make it a little difficult to like carry on at that point. Sometimes if you've had any of those or maybe move them been quite flat. You haven't been quite as ill-prepared as me.
[00:09:49] Vim: So I think I'm just very comfortable with saying when I don't know something and you know, right
[00:09:54] Okay, I had no way did I tell me more please?
[00:09:57] Tim: Right. I mean, that's probably they like the professional response. I suppose I sort of thought I'm kind of vaguely knew that area and I realized I'd never looked at the numbers. Yeah.
[00:10:07] Vim: No, that's true. That's kind of kind of weird stuff. Sure.
[00:10:12] Tim: what are your kind of standout moments from the from the blast
[00:10:16] Let's call it virtual Year.
[00:10:18] Vim: Let me let me have a thing that's really difficult to remember all of the conversations. I've had because they will they varied massively one thing that really stood out. For me was the conversation with Simon and Amanda Cookson around the science behind the way that we behave so I felt like I knew that area particularly well, but being able to hear it from a very light scientific and scientific perspective and really the chemistry that goes on in us when we are interacting with one another and why it's important to be really conscious of that
[00:10:50] I never really considered. I'd only ever thought of it from a psychological whenever you never liked physical point of view before and that's it me.
[00:10:58] Tim: Yeah, yeah so show the sort of crossover between you know, like you say the chemistry versus the psychology and they're not they're not totally separate
[00:11:10] They kind of interlinking in ways that we don't we sort of understand in bits, but I think I don't think we do really unless you're as you say deeply into the science. Yeah. Yeah, you know those roaches interesting one Frances.
[00:11:22] Vim: Yeah. How about you
[00:11:24] Tim: well like I mean, like I said that that that moment of like that
[00:11:27] High power and data centers doubling every 18 months datejust. I was totally shocked by that and it sort of made me think, you know, we should do something about this and I'm not really in a position to do much about it, which is kind of a shame but although actually funny thing. I did try. Try to run this podcast on a on a very small server in a cheap hosting Center in the Czech Republic, but just wasn't reliable enough kept falling over so I've ended up putting it back on to, you know mainstream provider
[00:11:57] And I feel bad about that. But it's like, you know, the reality is you've got to do what works and so that's that's a sort of unpleasant lesson from that actually and frustrating.
[00:12:09] Vim: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely I think of anything that you found really difficult to speak about
[00:12:14] Tim: I found the some of the family self-consciously treading quite carefully in some of the interviews where
[00:12:23] You know particularly talking about bias. Like I'm you know, I'm conscious of being like older white male Western, you know, and and having like every single possible privilege pretty much ticked off and like so so having those discussions, I sort of am very conscious that it will be super easy to say the wrong thing or give the wrong impression. And and so I do some of those conversations you do. I sort of wonder how how it comes over. Sometimes wonder how it sounds you know, like like I remember thinking I think I discuss this with you about like, you know, Like which of us should do that interview and you should have no you should do it'll sound it'll make it more interesting and I'm like, all right, you know, but I still have that there have been a couple of those where I've thought
[00:13:15] Well, you know, is this really my like I suppose to some extent will will my position in this get in the way of the conversation? That's what I mean. You know, this is a personal embarrassment possibility there, but there's also like, you know. Will it stop things moving will conversation stop as a result of that
[00:13:35] Vim: Yeah.
[00:13:35] Tim: It's kind of hard to know whether it has or not,
[00:13:37] Vim: but it is important to take into consideration though. Like it's but it's important to push yourself out of it because it's easy to do to have the conversations you find it easy to have and what we don't do often enough as push-ups elves have the conversations I challenging
[00:13:52] Tim: Yeah. I mean, I thought that's one side of it. But I think the other side is that I always feel like people genuinely are coming onto this as guests. And like yeah, there's the last thing I want to do is have to make fit somebody feel like they regretted coming on or they felt uncomfortable being there
[00:14:09] And so, you know, I do feel and I know we're sort of nominally hosts and I do feel that actually that, you know, want it to feel like. Um comfortable and safe and warm environment, you know, and and I think that's because that's how how we get interesting people to come and talk to us and pretty sure that people will look at who else has been interviewed and have a have a little listen to them to find out where they want to be on or not
[00:14:34] So we kind of it's always amused to see a you in another podcast the other day and I was amused to see that people have done like extensive Googling on you. Yeah. How did you feel about that?
[00:14:47] Vim: It was it was really interesting. It was next. Like I said, I hadn't anticipated it. So I felt like I had to remember a lot about myself
[00:14:56] It also made me realize how much stuff I put about myself online which I think we've spoken about before which I am always surprised myself over because I think I'm more aware than I really am. Yeah. Yeah, I appreciated it because they obviously like it showed me that they were very selective over who they wanted on and and they did their
[00:15:17] Research but it did still it just took me by surprise.
[00:15:20] Tim: Yeah. Yeah. I mean I'm I should have liked the idea that I mean we've seen in this we've tended not to talk more about people's history than was kind of necessary in order to talk about the future. You have to kind of understand people's contexts in order to understand what they're saying to some extent but but we've tried and I know I'm in a pretty much always say to guests like we're really interested in the future rather than necessarily in In looking back too much, you know, please set the context but let's look at Future things as you know as much as we can.
[00:15:56] Vim: Yeah,
[00:15:56] Tim: so that's like I suppose that means that we don't I do some research obviously, but I don't think we do as much as some people do. Hmm.
[00:16:07] Vim: Yeah, like I said, I don't think that's a bad thing
[00:16:09] I think the interview that I found probably like not difficult in the sense of it was a hard topic but difficult because it was a topic. I knew nothing about was probably with Fauve Altman. So one of the very beginning the one of the first interviews we did just because I had no idea. I'm such a novice when it comes to her area of expertise
[00:16:30] I was just a bit taken. I knew that I had to take a back seat and just just sit back and ask. Really,
[00:16:36] Tim: but it sounds great. Like if I mean I listened to it a while back again, and it's an interesting like it's it's an interesting way of getting into that. You know, that subject it was blockchain wasn't it that one
[00:16:51] Yeah, but it's I mean it does actually sound quite good because we had that thing in the beginning that we were going to. We're going to swap it around and then and then I got how to phrases this but like the most ignorant of us was going to do the interview and then we ended up not doing that because scheduling it got like really complicated
[00:17:10] But yeah,
[00:17:11] Vim: yeah,
[00:17:11] Tim: it's interesting that I wonder I do sometimes find like I think the worst one in that respect was was with with with Harvind cos and I have spent a lot of time in each other's company and we worked on projects together and whatever and I was super conscious throughout. Of not leaving the audience out
[00:17:29] It's like and I'm probably pretty sure we did because like we know we've hung out I can't tell you where we've hung out everywhere, you know, and and and so I worry it's slightly that like doing that with people who you know, well the conversation kind of can get bit exclusive as a result. So yeah, that's an interesting challenge
[00:17:51] Vim: Yeah. Yeah. I do wonder whether we should try and bring that back even if it's not every interview we swap roles but like even just one every once in a while because I think it did work really well in helping to bring a different conversation about
[00:18:06] Tim: right right. We've done it a couple of times since I think more by accident than to necessarily deliberately
[00:18:12] But but yeah, maybe we should we should try and do that and
[00:18:16] Vim: yeah
[00:18:16] Tim: a little-little more but it like like you said at the time and I agreed it was scheduling it just gets like somehow it gets significantly harder than. Then then just scheduling yourself. So what if you got in the bag thinking about the future
[00:18:32] What do we have? What kind of aspirations are we got for what we're going to try and do in the next few months.
[00:18:38] Vim: Yeah, I think keep going keep going interesting conversations on I'd like us to get a few more International guests on I guess people that aren't based in the UK talking about their experiences here
[00:18:49] I think we're doing good at getting a spread of people on as well, but lots of different sectors and industries. I'd like to see that continue for me. It's not necessarily about the amount of people listening to it. But the engagement from the people that are so what I really like is when we're posting the conversations on different platforms people are engaging with it
[00:19:08] People are having something to say or feedback and that's what keeps me excited about it.
[00:19:13] Tim: Right and we don't mean it's funny how you hear about these things because we don't really have a sort of feedback channel. So it's always full of totally accidental. But you know, if you run into somebody and they say hey, I should like the podcast or well there was a the one that you did with Robert Pierce
[00:19:33] Did you know you know what happened at the end of that? So
[00:19:36] Vim: yeah,
[00:19:37] Tim: they ended up doing a an event-based because of that podcast. Somebody heard it who teaches teaches Marketing in France wine Marketing in France or luxury brand Marketing in France with an interest in wine. She heard it and invited them over to
[00:19:55] Seminar to The Branding students
[00:19:58] Vim: that's amazing.
[00:19:59] Tim: I know it's like right when you know that and that's exactly the sort of outcome that you want that that somebody else hears it and think so that actually is relevant to my practice and you know, hey get in touch. So so that was kind of funny. I'm hoping that we
[00:20:14] Vim: yeah,
[00:20:15] Tim: I mean that's you know good can't always do that
[00:20:17] But like, you know, and who knows to what extent that people have talked. Kind of offline about is we've published people's Twitter handle. So we don't we don't have to be in the loop to for people to find them.
[00:20:29] Vim: So like any good news stories like that really important.
[00:20:33] Tim: Yeah. It was pretty fun. I mean, it's also fun just to kind of run into people who then you know comment on the podcast and doesn't even matter if they're like, no wholly positive
[00:20:43] Like I've got a bunch got a bunch of audio. Geeks are always on about the audio.
[00:20:47] Vim: So yeah I can imagine
[00:20:49] Tim: so that's always. But I'm afraid I just pretty much ignore them these days. Like I've got it through levels and I'm prepared to do you know, sorry go.
[00:21:00] Vim: Yeah. I was going to say if it was a paid gig and I think time job I'd feel differently about it, but it's voluntary and we do it for fun
[00:21:07] So yeah.
[00:21:07] Tim: It's also that they getting really good audio is actually about a lot of it's about an imposition on the guests. Like they have to have a good microphone or they have to come into the studio or whatever and make you know, you can't do that. Not not the kind of. The people we're getting any more hassle than we already give them
[00:21:28] Most of them won't do it. I think that's the that's my impression. It's because it's super easy makes it sort of possible for them.
[00:21:36] Vim: Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
[00:21:38] Tim: I hope hope I've got a couple of international ones coming out which it should be fun. Got somebody I've met haven't seen him for years, but keep in touch vaguely, but he does this thing with
[00:21:53] Old houses so he's basically interested in he's an American and that's so old is relative, but about like being able to keep old houses alive and usable but he uses Tech to do that. So this is kind of interesting. I'm going to I don't know what he's gonna say. Maybe he's gonna tell me there's something I didn't didn't know and I haven't described but but I'm hoping to talk to him and that's just a little niche world
[00:22:20] But but that should be a lot of fun and then
[00:22:23] Vim: that's really cool.
[00:22:24] Tim: And then the other one I'm hoping and I'm struggling with this one because I'm trying to find like time slots and people who will agree to time slots, but a really interested in consensus building which couple of spaces where there's like formal practice
[00:22:39] In how to build consensus and I think that's really interesting and I want to like what I have. I really last conversation. I really want to have been went been trying to take pin. There's a couple of people who could do this talk been trying to pin them down and there's just like haven't managed it yet
[00:22:54] But but I really really want to do that one. So I'm really looking forward to that if I can like a get it
[00:23:01] Vim: that would be amazing thing, but be really cool.
[00:23:04] Tim: Yeah. I'm yeah see if I can get it.
[00:23:08] Vim: Few cool ones lined up so you one on on language languages tomorrow, which I'm really excited about. Yeah
[00:23:15] Tim: Yeah, I think podcasting works really well for language
[00:23:18] Vim: and up with with the founder of the Riz test to have a challenge conversation around portrails of different races and ethnicities in mainstream media, which I'm really excited
[00:23:27] about because it's something I'm really passionate about but then go back to what we were saying earlier. Maybe that's better a better one for you to say.
[00:23:36] Tim: Yeah, actually, yeah, this isn't that very interesting challenge, um giving them a fit given that we both know him. I think it makes less
[00:23:44] Different actually, but yeah, I mean, we'll see how that how that plays out. But but now I think I mean, I think the aspects of that that I think is really I mean the whole areas interesting but I think the aspect of that that I would be would like to explore is is the kind of power of memes. Like, you know, it's an important topic and like it needs doing and all of that but what's really weird about it is it's being done with what's effectively just just a meme just a question like it's not a it's not a Manifesto It's not a 43 page Manifesto although or a book on you know political thought it's it's this
[00:24:24] Tiny sliver of question on which this whole progress is based and I think that's different and it may be there were maybe in the past you could do that, but I don't know. I think that that aspect of it. I mean, you know, the whole thing is interesting but but that aspect of it's like is a real shock to me
[00:24:43] No. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, that's it. So those should be good should be fun to to get those in you got any other kind of sectors or geography as you. Trying I'm trying to pull in which should go out and hunt down.
[00:24:57] Vim: I think it's the hidden industry as I'm really interested in. So like you said the metal Smith and like the Revival of artisan an Industries is what I'm particularly Keen to get involved in the understand more about that gardeners or like citizen scientist and
[00:25:15] All of that kind of stuff.
[00:25:16] Tim: Yeah, we should have done a tiny amount on that with when when we interviewed. Dr. Lucy Rogers, like she's sort of run the the craft side of that to some extent but but yeah and it would be interesting to get some more and more in that space because I think it is. Well, it is somebody we talk to somebody about this somebody else brought this up about how individuality of brand was becoming important
[00:25:44] Some product and people and product was it Hermione. You said that somebody did anyway, you know that we're sort of moving out of mass production and into like individual customization. Maybe somebody else that she maybe it wasn't on the podcast. Yeah. Well if it was a real person and I should like get them on a little work out who it was I mean a person who hasn't already been on the show is like,
[00:26:09] Vim: yeah
[00:26:10] Definitely cool to get someone that does think that to come and talk about it.
[00:26:13] Tim: Yeah, that's a remember who it was. Yeah. I'm normally I'm quite good about like I have a conversation and I sort of think well actually that might make a good podcast. But
[00:26:24] Vim: yeah,
[00:26:24] Tim: but I've obviously blown it with that one
[00:26:27] let's let's call that a wrap and and will we have every faith in the future