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Vim: [00:00:00] hi. This is Vimla Appadoo
Tim: [00:00:01] and I'm Tim Panton.
Vim: [00:00:02] And you are listening to the distributed Futures podcast. This is a podcast where we interview experts or people with interesting thoughts about what they think the future might look like.
We talked to them about what's happening now and what's happening in the future and in particular what they think is going to change and happen this week we're speaking to Tash Wilcox, he's an educator at Hyper Island and also an illustrator and what's really interesting is I'm talking when I speak to Tash I talked to her about the way that dishwasher has transformed the way that we communicate and how she's really developed a way of giving herself permission to be creative in a world where she's pushed for time and pressure and I've never really thought about that kind of space though the space to really give yourself that permission and the impact it can have on not only how we communicate but how we express our thoughts really, what do you think Tim ?
Tim: [00:00:56] so I mean Digital Art is , you know, like anything from kind of graphic art and and website-ish type things all the way through to you know, signage and huge sculptures that are interactive. Where on that Spectrum does she arrive ?
Vim: [00:01:15] Kind of both? She she's an illustrator so she does a lot of lettering and graphics and she's a graphic designer by trade and I guess her digital art form really lives on Instagram. So she massively uses social media to promote her creativity and that's helped her kinda and freelance and do do big like murals in offices and across cities and she even has kind of her own phone cover design and China as well. in her our lives on Instagram predominantly so she uses instagram as a way to promote what she does to show her creativity and it's managed. It's really propelled her artistic career. So she now gets jobs freelancing doing big murals and office spaces on buildings and she even has her own kind of phone cover range and China.
Tim: [00:02:10] Wow. I mean, I don't personally I don't cause I'm not graphically minded particularly. I find Instagram I impenetrable. I don't understand it and I saw a band the other day who's online presence was only Instagram?
Vim: [00:02:26] Wow, yeah, it's really interesting because I don't understand Instagram either and I'm its target market.
I'm I'm who should be on Instagram and it really is it's really interesting the impact it has on my social life because I think maybe 70% of the conversations I have now I get asked if I'm on Instagram and if I've seen something on Instagram or if you were on Instagram you would have seen that I've done this or this which is really interesting.
Tim: [00:02:55] It does seem to be where things are moving too. Yeah, and I think that the thing that we're like maybe you and I are failing at is the idea that the that it's only for images. It's sort of it's for pictorial representations, which is like a step on it can be a picture of a band in a park or whatever.
Vim: [00:03:15] Yeah. I think the captions are as important as well. I think that's why people. Conversations and communicate it's not necessarily about what the photo is. It's the conversation that is had around it.
Tim: [00:03:27] Right? Right,
Vim: [00:03:28] and I think that's the bit that I miss out on more but I mean the real see the really simple reason why I'm not Instagram is I rarely get my phone out to take photos, but I just wouldn't post anything and I don't want another thing to scroll through.
Tim: [00:03:45] Yeah. Yeah, and it does I mean, it's quite a need for quite a lot of Real Estate. Like yeah, you can't like with Twitter you can have 10 or 12 messages before you need to scroll. There's quite a lot going on on a page quite dense where it Instagrams much more and which probably maybe it's the beauty of it is that it's much more one item at a time.
It's a more low sort of singular. Thing maybe but I mean, I'm it's one of those platforms that I don't I kind of feel like I should understand but I sort of don't actually
Vim: [00:04:17] yeah, I'm just I'm not tempted by it at all either. I don't feel I don't feel like I need it in my life. But I what I am interested in is the ghost profile that it probably has of me because I know I'm in lots of photos on Instagram and in videos and lots of a few of the conference's I have
spoken at have predominantly tart of marketed through Instagram. So I know there's a lot of stuff in there about me anyway, so I'm more interested to see that if I signed up now what it would pre populate for me.
Tim: [00:04:48] Wow, that would be an interesting experiment. You should if you do it, you should like document it because it would be a cute alert.
You might learn something quite quite fun about it. I mean
Vim: [00:04:58] I am a bit scared of that as well.
Tim: [00:04:59] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe maybe do it, you know when you're feeling robust enough to take the shot. Yeah, we got I mean, I don't know we did a ton sort of tech assist for of that is how not maybe you don't use the right word.
But but how seductive beautiful physical objects are like, how easily. Carried along we are by imagery. Yeah, you know we did this we did these these beautiful huge sculptures that people took seriously, they were meant as jokes but people and people took them somewhat as jokes, but they made a wish and a star lit up and whatever people took, you know, each choice of star very seriously, and I'm like, you know, I know.
I wrote that's random. No, there's nothing no the heavens aren't moving to choose this or whatever and it bothered me actually about how like somehow the beauty could hide the mechanism and people would take it more seriously because of that. I wonder if Instagram is trading on that.
Vim: [00:06:07] Oh absolutely absolutely is that's how you get save any kind of Instagram influences because you see the person you want or the lifestyle you want and you.
Quite happy to buy into that because literally
Tim: [00:06:21] right right, you know buy into it, but they're not mean go to a lot of work to make that kind of casual or shot. It's not a yeah Fisher all the stuff. They're carrying around to get them to that point and
Vim: [00:06:33] I know yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Actually when I was in Rotterdam, I went to a gig and I had been to the same gig in Manchester maybe a week before that same artist
and the difference in how people are using their phones to capture. It was astounding in Manchester. I almost had to watch the gig through other people's phones because of how much people are recording and posting straight to Instagram versus in Rotterdam. I there was it was the opposite. I didn't know one had their phone out.
Everyone was just there but in the moment and it was it really took me by surprise, just how starkly different those two experiences were. Interestingly the conversation with hash doesn't focus that much on social media.
It's actually focused a lot around the future of education and the way that we learn at the moment particularly in tertiary education so hi when you're a graduate or postgraduate and that that's where the really interesting stuff comes how we actually take real life experiences and turn them into a learning experience really really interesting and I think that's a great point to introduce the podcast and welcome listeners to the wonderful world of Tash.
Tim: [00:07:48] I'm looking forward to it. Sounds great.
Vim: [00:07:50] Hi, this is Vimla Appadoo and you're listening to the distributed Futures podcast. Today I've got Tash Wilcox here with me who's the European Masters director at hyper Island - is there anything you'd like to say to introduce yourself?
Tash: [00:08:04] No, other than hello. I'm Tasha and the director Master.
Vim: [00:08:07] Sorry. I've got the wrong way around and I said masters of directors. I think
Tash: [00:08:12] it really doesn't matter titles. What are they?
Vim: [00:08:15] Yeah, exactly, but that

Tash: [00:08:17] wasn't what heard of but they said. Maybe toned it down.
Vim: [00:08:21] Sorry.
Tash: [00:08:22] I wanted to be called unicorn herder.
But when we were trying to think of a title so that
Vim: [00:08:26] I think that's even better. Maybe what I'll just start calling you unicorn herder.
Tash: [00:08:30] I would like that. I think that describes my job a little bit better sometimes
Vim: [00:08:37] but that's not all you do. You're also kind of recognized illustrator in the world as well.
Can you tell us a bit about that?
Tash: [00:08:43] Yep, I think it's funny. I was speaking to another person who I would say is recognized illustrator as. And whenever anybody says that we both kind of go. Oh, no, I'm not an illustrator and well, I'm not like a gopher and I like immediately as
he said that I started shying away from it because I trained as a graphic designer and I did photography and graphic design.
Vim: [00:09:03] Yeah,
Tash: [00:09:03] and I I started drawing about five or six years ago. So for me for me, I don't see myself as like a recognized illustrator, but then sometimes I sit back and realize that I work for quite big companies. And yeah, and I've got loads work out there and I. A I probably am but it's weird that inside me.
It doesn't sit right and I can't quite put my finger on it, but it was really it was super interesting to have that conversation with quite a few other people. Who said yeah, I know why why can't we just go? Yes, I'm an illustrator.
Vim: [00:09:33] Yeah. Yeah, that is really interesting. I wonder if. It's because it's not what you've trained and I still get the same feeling when I call myself service designer because yeah, I'm not a traditional designer.
Like I've never studied design in any and it's that fear of like what if people find out that I can't draw?
Tash: [00:09:52] Had a really weird moment today where we were talking about something and. I think I actually don't know if you know that like in China. I've got a phone that's branded the Tash Wilcox phone and it's sort of like got my illustrations all over and it sells alongside Hello Kitty and I'm in an advert and I never speak about it, but it came up in conversations who's like what you've got a branded phone.
Yeah, it's really weird. But like and again I sort of got a bit like. I'm get shy and humble and I'm not shy or humble why it comes across that way when I talk about other stuff. I'm sort of like quite like yeah, whatever blah blah blah. But yeah, I don't know.
Vim: [00:10:36] Maybe it's because it's something you write that well.
I always find a design or art or the things that creative. It's always a part of you that maybe that's why it's it's something that's quite personal.
Tash: [00:10:46] Yeah. Yeah. Might be true I will have a think about that and get back to you.
Vim: [00:10:50] But so tell us how you kind of got started with that and how it came to be.
Tash: [00:10:55] So as I mentioned I I trained as a graphic designer and then I worked freelance for a long time as a graphic designer. And yeah, I did quite a lot of Photography and sort of Band and music photography and did record covers for probably the biggest one was Elbow that I did and did music videos Etc.
So I did that for a long time and then I. Got into education and started working at a university and went from part-time to full-time. And at one point I realized I'd actually stopped practicing as much I did little bit I didn't really do as much I'd sort of like stepped away from it and I let the teaching almost become everything that I did which is not a bad thing.
So there's no judgment in that sentence. But yeah, I never wanted to be one of those people that taught and didn't do and the students. Doing their final project and the scenes were incredible, but they seem to always freeze at that point and they just come and go. Yeah, I'm thinking about it, but they wouldn't do anything.
And so I was like, okay, can we stop thinking and start doing and just you know, just make that Mark and at the same time I think soup flight. Social media is consuming a lot of my time and in the night evenings, I'll be answering the students up until ridiculous o'clock and I wasn't putting boundaries on me and my boyfriend bought me a pen and a notepad.
and was like you used to like doodling just maybe shut the computer for a while and do that. So these three things in culmination I committed to doing one typographic illustration a day and I ship it and basically I put it on Instagram and I put it out there and it was it was for the students because I was like I'm going to do this.
I'm going to show you if I can do it you do it come on. Let's all do this together. I am and that was six years ago and I've done done a drawing every day since and I like I'm going to admit if I've got a really bad hangover or if I'm traveling a lot of are sometimes they miss it, but then I do the two the next.
But yeah for the last six years I've done one pretty much every single day and every single day I put it up on Instagram and it's quite nice. Like I was so bad. I like I'm not perfect now, but I was so bad when I look back. I thought it was brilliant at the time. I'm like, what was you thinking and I think I lost more than was really good.
I love that embarrassment of putting like bad work. Like it wasn't bad. It was just it wasn't finished or it wasn't I hadn't got to the point where I could do it. But I was practicing and it was really really liberating to go. Do you know what I'm not very good at this but I'm trying and the community on Instagram in the lettering and Community are incredible.
They really sort of support you and people like yeah, but you can do this or if you ask for help I'll give you tips and stuff. So yeah, I'm Facebook memories is very good for reminding you of that. Yeah. I think this is what you thought was brilliant. So yeah, and it's just developed from there and I just I just.
Doing more and more stuff and it's great. It gave me a second lease in my professional life because it wasn't just Tash she works for Salford Uni, it was Tash. Oh, yeah. She's the one that it does illustrations. I do big murals now. Yeah, I've got this stuff if people go. Can you draw that? I'm like, yeah and I'm really bad and yes before actually knowing if I can do it, but like the first year mural I did was massive and I was like, oh that was fun.
I'll do another one. So yeah, I kind of. Jump in and learn as I go and it seems to work near the minute. I'm not a doctor no one is gonna die. So it's okay isn't it
Vim: [00:14:26] pretty exactly and in terms of kind of how it started and where it's at. Now, where do you see it going in the like next 5-10 years.
Tash: [00:14:36] If I don't know it's really odd.
I have these moments where I think I should be planning my life a little bit more, but I kind of I think the drawings of all. Just done their own thing and they've let almost leads its own life and I take on what I'm in a lucky position because I can't I don't solely earn money through the illustrations so I can be a little picky and pick and choose but I think in the last I don't know in the last couple of months.
I've worked for places like Siemens. I've forgotten everywhere I've worked for now. Oh, well, it's Dentsu. So if like some some quite big companies, So there are moments where I'm like do I what do I do do I step off? What I'm doing is my full-time job and actually try and make a go of doing this and sort of like create something new but then I'm like, I don't know whether I'd want to be a full-time illustrator and what that would look like, but I've recently been you know, sketchnoting.
Yeah, and I worked. Works with flatland the other day who were in Amsterdam. So we were in Amsterdam working for Ikea and basically it was really really interesting working with them and kind of thought that would be an interesting way to go because it because I do quite a lot of facilitation so the facilitation and the units I think I'm looking at is like, how can I do all of this combined?
Vim: [00:15:55] Yes
Tash: [00:15:56] being this this perfect storm.
Vim: [00:15:58] Yeah and like illustration to me. It's one of those funny things. It feels like it's kind of come back.
Tash: [00:16:06] Yeah,
Vim: [00:16:06] so it felt like for a long time I want it illustrations were in it wasn't on Trend. It was kind of all of this. I really crisp clean desired and now it's gone back to her to feeding a bit more real and a bit more human.
How do you feel? It is an art form is going to change.
Tash: [00:16:22] Yeah, I I've got quite a lot of views on that because I think that the hand rendered so specially hand rendered lettering. It's got huge and if you go online if you look at books, I was reading something a while ago and it said the books with hand Ren hems lettering on the front sell better and I think the more Tech we go the more we want to see the human in the tech.
Vim: [00:16:44] Yeah
Tash: [00:16:44] and why it's the site I think, you know Vector art still everywhere. I don't think it's dying. I think that humans have like a hand has drawn this even though it's on a screen. I think people just want to see the human and the Machine and have that little bit of tactile sort of wrongness in there.
So I think it'll keep growing and I think it has like it like year for year. I I've yet. I thought it was going to die out if it was going to be a bit of a flash in the pan hand lettering. Well, yeah, Everyone likes short boards, but actually it just seems to be sort of growing and growing there. I think it will evolve because if I'm honest I use them and iPad now and I do it all on my iPad.
I don't actually do pen and paper anymore or but I do this murals. I also like it's weird. I have I'm in a constant battle with myself, I think because of waste. Because I got approached to sell prints and I like my reaction was really bad and I was really ashamed of myself. And so yeah, I was I know I don't do Prints but I was like no I'm getting print's because it's a waste of paper and then I was like, well, I don't mean yours is a waste of paper blah blah blah and it was I think it was something that obviously mean pouring in the back of my head.
Vim: [00:17:57] Yeah, and it just came out.
Tash: [00:17:59] Yeah. I don't want to create more things that people consume and I've got to admit I think there's so much print. That I do think is do we need more paper with prints on ? Yeah, so yeah, but then I'm in a constant battle because I see loads of beautiful prints and I think they're amazing and it shows off people's talents.
And yeah, it was an obvious Avenue for sort of like income for some amazing illustrator, so I'm not against it but I think for me I'm like, I don't need to be another person producing more paper.
Vim: [00:18:29] Yeah, that's fair enough and you know, I think. It's really similar to what you were saying about wanting to see the human and the Machine.
It's you often one a print in your house to have a visual or to have something there that you think represents you but I do wonder whether that will shift as technology changes so that you have more digital art in the house as well.
Tash: [00:18:50] Yeah, they then I don't want a screen on my walls showing again more than a TV.
Yeah, although I'm on a massive tip with TV at the minute as well. So. you know like menus now, they have carbon Footprints. So yeah, my latest thing that I want to see I consume a huge Everyone is always like LG watch so much TV and do so much work, but I work in front of TV a lot of time and and I thought Watch series and then I wouldn't watch it again or I watch a film and I won't watch it again because I might not know I've seen that.
And then the other day I was at and I was thinking to produce all these series and all of these films and all of this mass media because we're consuming and bingeing like the word binging is like food. We are just eating so much the actual think of the carbon footprint of a TV series and should they put the carbon footprint on each Series so that you do watch it again and you do consume it again and you enjoy it rather than rushing through.
Yay. That's my latest thing. I think everything should have a carbon one footprint on it.
Vim: [00:19:53] Oh, so I I heard the other day a really interesting thing. I think it was said at the UN when they announce the climate crisis.
Saying if anyone wants to take climate change, seriously, we will just have to stop getting flight. Yeah, and my heart sank because I was like I want to do everything else but I really don't want to stop seeing the world up and it's that weird is that weird thing of even though in our control even though we can there are lots of things we can do though.
It does get to that limit where infringes on our life. So now we did
Tash: [00:20:25] with the nice things that we have is it's impossible to judge a farmer in the right light, not the rainforest in Brazil. So if he's just trying to keep his family alive or she you know, we're just as bad and funny enough. The reason I'm in Sweden for six weeks.
It's because I worked out if if I had to come over to do the work that I need to do. I was going to take six flights to so I just thought why don't I just stay there for six weeks. So it's me trying to make a conscious decision not to much because for hyper Island, I do fly a lot and it really it does.
Yeah. Is I just a question what I'm doing and sort of like why am I flying much I can remote work but actually the work that I'm doing over here. I physically do need to be here. Yeah, but then I'm like could they not just get somebody else to do it? Yeah, I you just said it's based said we should fly once every two years and yeah, yeah, it's yeah.
Vim: [00:21:25] Sorry, that is completely off-topic. But I just felt like I needed to say it. So you mentioned Hyper Island quite a few times. And those are the people that are listening that don't know what it is. You just give an explanation of what hyper is.
Tash: [00:21:39] Yeah, so Hyper Island is a creative business school. So that's the for the short version of it.
And we basically were founded over 20 years ago when digital was of like really stepping in and the founders realized that there was a gap between. And the digital Industries and education and students were coming out and they weren't quite ready to go sort of straight into work. So I hyper Island kind of made it created hyper Island to bridge that Gap the difference between us and normal schools or universities is the we I'm going to say this and then I'm going to caveat it afterwards.
So we don't have grades. We don't have teachers. We have industry leaders that come in. We work on real bleep briefs. So we have clients and they actually pitch. To the clients. So nothing's done in the hypothetical way. It's like they're put in front of you know, the CEO of the company or the highest person in the room the caveat on that was I run the Masters and we are accredited by teesside University who are incredible honors, they really support what we do and because it's a master's you do get graded on that word.
There is research activity. So we are of a master's level and level 7 postgraduate and but we run it very much the same we've got part-time. In London Stockholm and Singapore and we've got two courses in Manchester and digital experience design and digital management. And they yeah, we run it you working teams throughout so you constantly have different teams.
We've got 27 different cultures on average. So you've got a lot of diversity in the crew. We work with clients. So this year we worked with the city Co who work with the council in Manchester on. The nighttime economy. So one will be quite localized and so working for good and then we actually worked with the ey this year so sort of already big company.
And yeah, so we try and get differing briefs. We worked with Innovation Lab at the airport Etc. Yeah, and it's it's really like I would say it's intense I wouldn't lie, but it's it's a different way of Education. It's very much learning by doing and it's about the sir. The way we educate on its head I think in the creative sector we have the ability to do that.
I think in other sectors, it's a very different sort of way of learning and I think we have to be aware of that but in the creative sector, I think everything changes so fast at the minute that I think we're in a really lucky position where adaptable industry come in and give us the truth and you know, they say, we're not on The Cutting Edge.
We then find where that edges and move the course in that direction.
Vim: [00:24:24] Yeah, and in terms of breaks, you've seen both sides of it now so working at University to working at hyper yet. You say you has been the the kind of biggest difference or the biggest impact on students lives.
Tash: [00:24:36] That's a hard one because it's Salford Uni for a long time.
And so if I would say a kind of weirdly grew up there and I think you've got credible people working there that do you shift those sort of like those boundaries and I think they are trying to do that. I just think the university system is quite slow to react I think there's there's sort of boundaries put on what you can do.
Where as at Hyper I feel like if industry students and sort of everybody feeds back that we need to change we do change and will change with you know, we will change that month or that so if you know that crew rather than it has to go through XYZ before we can shift anything and I think you know what? I think the biggest thing is that we.
So we do a foundation week and that's done all of the courses. We have this High pride and Foundation week and that's where we introduce them to each other. We sort of question. Who were they in the crew? Who are they are hyper Island and who are they like as an individual? We spend a week doing that before we do anything and the power of doing that putting putting the learning in their hands creating a crew really taking time on sort of the culture because we talk about culture.
a lot, but we release of take care of building the culture in the car when I say crew it's the peer group and then they've got that they got that strength that goes all the way in the course and I think not many universities do that. Really they don't spend time on them as a peer group or them as in the culture and how they work together what are their learning behaviors? What can they can't they do within that that culture? So how can they stretch and push each other without like damaging each other? So we put a lot of time and energy into that how to feedback using rosenbergs that flight approach giving them different ways of understanding teams and how to work in them.
So it's not just the what are we going to do? It's the how are we going to do it and those High? This creates of students that come out with a lot more confidence a lot more sort of understanding of who they are in the world a little bit. That sounds like some random up like who they are and how they fit and where they want to fit and a voice to be able to go.
I want to work in a good culture. I want to sort of like be in a job. Where, I enjoy my job because it takes a lot of life. And yeah, I think it's the confidence. So I think it's that that's really really puts that extra level on what we do a hyper Island, but I will go back. I've been to a lot of universities.
So I do actually still go and do few talks at universities and I think there's some incredible courses out there. So this is not me going Hyper's amazing is better than everywhere. I still think there's some amazing university courses, but I do think there's some that are just. Relying an old methods and I think
Vim: [00:27:35] yeah, there's definitely a split between the kind of more traditional academic universities versus I don't know what you would in call them.
But either more what are seen as more creative. So when I think that when I was at University and it was so rigid and so structured and there was no space for creative thinking at all, right, you just can you couldn't challenge it in any way? So what I see being done at hyper and it's complete.
Completely opposite You almost co Design the course. So yes part of and it's amazing.
Tash: [00:28:06] Yeah, I mean exactly. Yeah and if the students we asked them to challenge us themselves sort of like push all of the like all of those boundaries and with that it's not easy because they do push us and sort of. They was a wonderful moment this year wonder what about eight of them and like we're both this one of the briefs where they were like, we don't work on this brief.
I don't like I don't align with it. Ethically I don't you know, I'm not sure whether we should do it and we have that conversation and it did it causes a big Ripple but I genuinely was just like yeah good and I love the they push back and it and it caused sort of ripples to go out into the other team's because it's of meant that it disrupted some of the teams but you know, that wouldn't have happened in a normal university setting like, okay.
Well, we're just getting on with it or you just wouldn't have a client brief but that yeah, they should we've got it. And on the wall, it says question everything and you know, they will question everything but in a really professional well thought through way.
Vim: [00:29:10] Yeah, I think a big part of it is knowing when to question because that's that's where you get to the Crux of problems or decision-making or anything like that.
Tash: [00:29:19] Yeah, the exactly
Vim: [00:29:19] kind of you mentioned that hyper has been going for 20 years now and it's changing the way that people being educated. What she said how do you think life is going to change over the next 20 years and more that how do you think education is going to change?
Tash: [00:29:34] It's really hard to say because I think I changed my mind every week at the minute and I think was something that we were is actually sort of making so the Masters a little bit more.
I know use the word bite-size but it's not the right word so modular so there's more options so you can opt in and out because at the minute we do have like a structure of you you do design thinking digital Technologies business transformation, etc, etc. Whereas the idea going forward and that like this it's going to be hard and this is going to take a lot of planning and structuring but you'll be able to go.
Okay. I want to do design thinking but then I actually want to do understanding people and then I'm going to do business transformation and they'd be able to pick and mix and create their own masters. Well, I'm have core modules but then a pick-and-mix after the we've even gone so far. And again, this is going to pick back up on the flights thing where I'm going.
Oh God, the other idea is that you could pick a mix as in you could be doing the course in London, but then choose to go and do a module in Singapore or go to the module in Stockholm. So yeah it this is nothing is set in stone yet. But this is something that we're looking at and like how can it work will it work and I've seen it work.
In different universities and they obviously, you know, they have a bigger structure than we have. I love it. And I think that again it's people flying to different places. So there's that's my I mean, it's a stinky fish people won't know what that means. But it's is the thing that you hold inside you and it just gets stinky and stinky, but that's my sort of my worry on that one, but the flip side which is where I'm like actually this would help and Blended learning and online learning.
It's getting better. I used to hate online learning and I used to hate doing online talks. But actually I've done a few recently in even though it's hard because you don't have an audience to interact with it's getting better and sort of like the way we've run workshops where you're talking in the workshop is actually happening in the room, but you just don't happen to be there.
And well for think Blended learning is going to come more and more into it. So people don't have to necessarily be in the country and Hyper is running a lot of online courses and we've got we've got a bot called Doris who's the squirrel and and Doris actually does some of the some of this not teaching but some of the organization for a so Doris will and ask questions and have like poke little I will have you thought about this.
So Doris kind of nudges the education along and also takes in some of the submissions? Yes, like the bot part of it super interesting and sort of having so like and
Vim: [00:32:25] I guess that's taking Blended learning in one step further. You've got the kind of traditional like face-to-face you then got the online courses, then you've got the aid of I guess like robotic teaching assistants.
Tash: [00:32:38] Yeah, and I think again it will be a mix of sort of like. So at the minute Max my colleague in Sweden, he it's him and Doris and sort of like they work as sort of co-workers and I really like the sort of odd relationship that's built there because people people do talk about Doris and we've also got for so on slack.
We've got a book called Henry and Henry such checks in with the teams and asks a series of questions and sort of the depending on how we answer it sort of like it's. Like a HR bot. It just checks in with us. We are and how we feel. I love Henry. I have a good old. I love to do a bit of an outpour on Henry.
So yeah, I've noticed I've become incredibly comfortable with interacting with the Bots and I know it's more time with it and that I still want the human in the machine and that goes back to illustration what we were talking about.
Vim: [00:33:33] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And in terms of the way that people are learning as well.
It's it. Very interesting that it's becoming more normal to have the blended as well. But you say you hope you're comfortable having a full-on conversation with Henry.
Tash: [00:33:49] Yeah,
Vim: [00:33:50] I do right you see it a lot with school kids that young much younger and Forest nurseries and things like that. You have like going back out and learning through nature.
Tash: [00:34:01] Yeah. I mean I like I'll be honest because I the full time cost me money. The they're in every single day working in teams. So when I sort of say, you know, it's going more Blended. I'd like actually it's understanding how to work remotely. It's understanding how to sort of like Implement Bots when they're needed but when digital isn't needed just to have those conversations have a face-to-face conflict pick up the phone or at like just walk across the office and actually have a conversation with another person and which I loved it the other day
we actually took the students out. They didn't have the computer. For week and we took the students up. It's called hammarby Hill, which is its ski slope in the winter and we just walked up there and they did sort of paired a walk and talk paired off sharing and when they got to the top. They were like this.
They had this amazing view of Stockholm and some of them have moved from Peru to live here for six months and it was so they got to see where they were living. and it was fantastic. It was just it was one of those moments.
We like you had this is what it's about fresh air get outside.
Vim: [00:35:07] Yeah, and it's one of those moments where you know that it's a lasting impact.
Tash: [00:35:11] Yeah,
Vim: [00:35:12] but that will change the way they think of business forever. Yeah, which is which is amazing and have you seen a shift in the way that people do the work as Technologies become an even more important part of our Lives.
Tash: [00:35:25] Yeah. I think I think. Kind of gone through this sort of like I don't know whether it's I'm actually teaching slightly older students now so our students because it's Masters level between 23 to 50 55. So we've got quite a broad age range. So you've got younger ones to the old ones who've been in industry, but I think I used to see students really relying on Tech and it was like, they wouldn't think or Draw it out or expect like they wouldn't they wouldn't go through the creative process
of sort of like just going. Okay. What is this? How can we get to the root of researching and playing they go straight to the computer go finished and they would just be like no you've just gone on the computer that can be like that isn't the answer and I'm really enjoying sort of that service design and experience design and things like that are really coming out now and system design.
I think I'm loving seeing that but I do sometimes step out and go is it because I'm just I pivoted into a slightly different area, but. I think that it's not they're not relying on the computer that going out and interviewing people. They're going out and actually having interactions with humans that are going to get affected by the products.
They want to make and it's not I've made the product screw the humans. It's actually stepping back and having to sort of like pop out your empathy. Yeah. So, like I said, I'm not sure on that. I kind of I do question that quite a lot, but I do think. I went into mmu fashion department and did some work with them a little while ago and it was really nice with the students because they weren't on the computer.
They were playing with ideas and sort of like doing it around rather than just going straight to I'm on Photoshop and I've created a you know a montage. So yeah,
Vim: [00:37:10] it's really interesting you say that because I was working with some students recently. I was just looking at the final briefs and they had to take you through the process.
Tash: [00:37:18] Yeah,
Vim: [00:37:19] I could really tell the difference between. People who had come up with an idea and just designed it but spent all of their time finessing the design and the logo and not thinking about the idea.
Tash: [00:37:31] Yes
Vim: [00:37:32] vs the people that they really dug deep into the problem space and come up with an idea and then just rushed the the final product.
Yeah, but had a much stronger business case and understanding of what where they were going and a prototype versus someone who printed out a logo and talks around what the Brand meant I know for real. We'll both add value to the working load. It was just really interesting takes on problem solving
Tash: [00:37:58] I think do you think that's something to do with sort of like the work in progress?
So, you know the good old wip like that's the only real thing now so if like you see like there's loads of work in progress videos and there's it's almost like that is a business and itself of like this put in to do it, you know doing this and I think it used to be hidden quite a lot. There's Ira Glass does.
Amazing talk on and it's really old now, but I go on about it all the time called The Gap and it's about like when you when your designer or an illustrator, it's like working in the creative world. You see he doesn't say this, but you know, like shiny tumbler finished images and you're like I want to do that and then you try it and a lot of people go.
Why does mine not look perfect straight away and then they're like, I can't do this and I actually. I got a few messages on Instagram at one point and I was you know, I treated it carefully because I didn't know how old they were but they were like, how do how do I become as gives you an illustration?
You know, I've had my iPad for a week and I'm just not doing as well as you are never to go but I don't know. Yeah, I've been doing it for five years. You just got to a week is a drop and it's that will be brilliant now and Ira Glass so many people don't realize that that beauty that you see as a finished piece there's 10 years of like grit and passion and love put into that.
Vim: [00:39:19] And because it's not just how long it takes you to see that one. It's the compound time. It's taking you to get to that point to do it.
Tash: [00:39:26] Yeah. Yeah and the millions that you've done like the practicing ones and sort of before that and I think it's I think it's great that work in progress is now a thing that people show the amount of effort goes into making something that sometimes it's super simple
Vim: [00:39:41] Yeah a hundred percent and I also think.
About the the iPad point you might just there there's that instant gratification. It's like I've got the tools why can't I do it?
Tash: [00:39:52] Yes,
Vim: [00:39:52] it says we've lost that sense of needing to learn a skill around it.
Tash: [00:39:57] Yeah, definitely and I think that's why I was sleeping please there. I started on paper and Pen at first because I had what did pads and sort of like, yeah.
I kind of developed a skill on pen and paper and then yeah, I think it was four years. Before I actually just went right I'm investing in an iPad and it did you know, it changed the way I work. But yeah people people do it takes over night and it's perfectly
Vim: [00:40:24] I know and I both have had quite a few people say that especially the iPad pros of absolutely change the way they sketch in the - right?
Tash: [00:40:32] Yeah, I've got to admit has I it's two centimeters away from me at the minute. So like I do love it and it was very very good investment. It paid itself off. Very quickly. Also, it has a salmon yoga on it or Santa Rebel whatever I do which is a which tracks me so makes me exercise as well.
Vim: [00:40:51] Nice.
Excellent.
Tash: [00:40:52] Still drawing.
Vim: [00:40:54] Yeah. It's a life tool as well. I haven't got any other questions for you, but I tend to end my interviews with kind of how are you feeling about the future? What do you. If you had to summarize how you see your future, what would it be?
Tash: [00:41:08] Wow.
Well Boris, this is going to date this podcast that made me so I am coming back to the UK of not yes. I I think the future I genuinely think the future is bright. I think I'm very very. Spoilt I love my job. I love the people that I get to work with I get inspired every day. I get to work with students who really give and and each year.
I noticed a they want to work for companies to do good. But yeah, they were they want things to be better and being around people like that every day is really inspiring so for me if we can what if I can enable them to keep thinking in that way and keep growing like I do feel we can make an impact. I just need to stop Flying as much
Vim: [00:42:05] that is a great note to end on thank you so much for your time.