Vim: [00:00:00] [Chime]. . Hi. I'm Vimla Appadoo
Tim: [00:00:02] and I'm Tim Panton.
Vim: [00:00:03] And you're listening to the distributed future podcast where every weeks, we'll talk about the future and different interpretations and specialist areas of what people specialist in their their subject area think might happen in the future and this week.
We're talking particularly about power dynamics and storytelling and how technology can be used to either empower people or. Bridge the bridge The Divide and kind of socio-economic term and welcome in a new wave of thinking so the conversation with Myra was really really interesting because not only were we talkin about the use of AR and VR in New Media, but the way it's kind of helped to encourage dialogue in different ways.
Which I'd never really un-picked before I've never really thought about how technology is encouraging us to have different conversations.
Tim: [00:00:56] I mean it certainly enables people to have conversations that they couldn't have had before geographically. I mean, I'm like kind of aware of that that I can have chats with people around the world and you know who I wouldn't maybe otherwise have those conversations with.
But and I also understand like storytelling. It's just like enormous thing that we naturally do or rather. Naturally appreciate. I'm not sure we naturally do storytelling perfectly, but we do understand it we value it, but no not really seen the combination of the two. How does that kind of work
Vim: [00:01:30] the combination of what two sorry ?
Tim: [00:01:32] Of the.
Combination of Storytelling and Technology. I kind of don't the link.
Vim: [00:01:39] So what's really interesting is Myra uses immersive technology to help? Create new worlds and she explains quite well how she does this through having a really big question at the heart of the story that she's trying to tell so how will what would the world look like with empathetic AI for example is one that she did recently.
And uses relevant technology to help do that. So because they were they were talking about AI through the story. They used augmented reality to take people through a narrative of what that World might look like and they had to create the characters in the world and all of the experiences as part of that as well as having living
actors a mass of actors ad-lib throughout it to so as a someone go into that experience you were interacting with lots of different media to to experience that story in that Journey.
Tim: [00:02:33] Okay, right. So it's kind of like a cross between kind of like a cross between science fiction and and role play.
Vim: [00:02:41] Yeah,
Tim: [00:02:41] but you're you're yeah now I think that's really that that whole area is really interesting in terms of like getting insights of. Situations that you wouldn't normally think yourself into and therefore you wouldn't understand. No, I think that's really that's really it's really interesting stuff.
And if so, the AR like enhances that experience so you like even deeper into it.
Vim: [00:03:06] Yeah, exactly. So it. What what I hadn't. Realize is that the experience can work with or without that technology as well? So you could have just the you could have it without any technology any AR and just go through it experiencing this other world.
But yeah, like you say that that augmented reality brings whole nother Dimension to it where you're fully immersed into this other experience, but even more to the point is she takes it around the world. So not only is she understanding how it works in the culture. It was written for but then understand the impact it has on different cultures and different communities globally.
Tim: [00:03:42] Wow, and does she like how does she extract the lessons from this? I mean, I understand. that the participants will learn from it, but does she like collate these experiences so that she's got some kind of record and
Vim: [00:03:55] yeah. Yeah, she mentions really briefly that they have to they kind of track the conversations afterwards and they I think when I've been so kind of knit not nearly as cool but similar experiences, they try to have a bit of a conversation after they encourage everyone to go to the pub together afterwards with the actors.
To carry on that conversation and to get under the skin of what you've experienced or feel felt and I think they tried to do that both online and offline so that you share what you've learned or felt or the impact that it's had on you.
Tim: [00:04:28] I think this stuff is really really exciting and really valuable.
I remember I think you might have been. In the room, I can remember and I remember being seeing somebody who had produced a it was effectively an art piece, but it was it was to help people who aren't on the autistic Spectrum understand just how overwhelming. Certain Visual and sound experiences can be and they created this kind of massively over the top flashing loud environment and they made in particular police officers go into it and then they ask them to talk about how they felt about it afterwards and say, okay.
Well, that's my lived experience on some days. You know and and that that's how it feels to me. So if you didn't like standing there with it all going on. Well, you know, that's what happens to me. If you go past in a squad car or whatever. So that was a really interesting kind of simple use of not so simple but use of physical environment and some storytelling to get a really really valuable message over and that sounds to me like this is kind of an extension of that that the.
Progression from that sort of thing.
Vim: [00:05:41] Yeah, definitely and we spoke a lot about how technology is beginning to level the playing field in there are so many open resources to teach yourself as code or to learn about all of these huge different topics and what Myra has found is that small communities around the world will have a younger generation who are just teaching themselves how to code. And becoming Freelancers and out being outsourced resource for big tech companies around the world as well and how that's you know, that's his huge empowerment of people that have just had the Knack and the skill to do all of the stuff which I had massively under. Appreciated I just hadn't realized the extent to what to which that was happening.
Tim: [00:06:25] Yeah. I mean, I think that's that's really exciting. But also kind of interesting to see how that happens culturally in the sense that like, you know, the organizations that are having these remote workers when you're effectively we're talking about to an extent remote suppliers, but you still got to understand the environment is like do they work on Sundays?
You know, do they all have to take a week off to do the Harvest?
Vim: [00:06:53] Yeah,
Tim: [00:06:53] you know and there's a whole bunch of things that people don't know that they have to learn about and it would be really like interesting to see how that learning kind of is two way.
Vim: [00:07:03] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah cool. Yeah. It was a really really good conversation.
We are we. Ended up having a bit more of a philosophical debate than I normally do which I loved it was a great. It was a perfect Friday afternoon conversation. Actually,
Tim: [00:07:19] I'm definitely looking forward to hearing that. It's kind of interesting because he had a I went to computer games Museum here at the weekend.
Vim: [00:07:29] Yeah
Tim: [00:07:29] came out of it realizing is just how important story telling is how much more important story telling is than the graphics like so you get these really old games that are just like text on a screen or black and white with just line drawings or whatever and and they're so immersive just because of how the storytelling is done.
It takes you a few seconds to be totally in that world without it having to be like 3D AR whatever all of that helps. But yeah, it's the story telling is the thing that makes it work or not
Vim: [00:08:04] Yeah Yeah a hundred percent. I mean when I'm not. I'm not a big gamer, but the game is I do remember playing I can't remember the name of it.
But you had to put in a video and it told you a story that you've then played a board game too. And it was it was like a pirate being something and it just really stands out my head because I believed everything that was going on because there was this massive interaction with what I was seeing on the screen,
Tim: [00:08:28] right, right.
Yeah. No, I think that's that's that's kind of interesting to see how that plays out with the AR space but ya know so I'm really looking forward to listening to this and and and catching up on some philosophy, which I don't do enough of.
Vim: [00:08:44] Hi, this is Vimla Appadoo and you are listening to the distributed future podcast today I've got Myra Appannah talking about immersive storytelling in technology advances in how we experiencing Myra would you like to introduce yourself.
Myra: [00:09:00] Hello. Vimla Appadoo our surnames are remarkably similar for a reason.
Vim: [00:09:06] Yes, Myra is my cousin.
Myra: [00:09:08] Yeah. This is my esteemed cousin.
So yeah, I basically bit of background worked in Media. A long time maybe 15 years. And as a Storyteller originally is a project manager and managing big digital projects when things were really really web-based and that was really at its Inception and then I moved into the creative side and started sort of Storytelling in that way.
And then I sort of set up an immersive theater company, which is exploring kind of spatial storytelling started technology within that and and then I set up Bright Black my new immersive storytelling production company. So we do right through from concept to making games engine and lots of other applications.
Brilliant. Well, it's like they were kind of in the business of world-building moving away from Ridgid kind of scripts kind of conservative hierarchical ways of making stories come to life really that's all kind of what sort of aligned ourselves to the new Power movement, which if you've read the book is a wicked book by two guys.
Yes, I think he started talking about new power as a kind of moving from currency of old power and hierarchy and big walls that are impossible to penetrate transparency that kind of thing, too. Technology enabling fluidity and coming up currency have your influence through the following these you're able to reach people people that our voices are able to have one are artboard physicals and it is sharing.
Vim: [00:11:03] Yes,
Myra: [00:11:04] and in that way. Yeah, it's kind of a company's strategy that
Vim: [00:11:09] so what if you had to summarize what imagine storytelling is to people listening? What would that be?
Myra: [00:11:17] So it's moving away from passive linear kind of absorbing a story. So. It's actually a story structure is you know, character changes over a certain time.
They that's quite a traditional way of writing. So I've also made them are like to me and it's there is form and structure there which is important to understand before you break it, but this is about taking that idea and making live on many different levels. So like embodied feeling so spacial storytelling.
So moving away from point A to point B, even branching narratives are quite very restrictive and kind of old-school kind of Highly functional open worlds and world building

Vim: [00:12:04] and and how does technology fit into that
Myra: [00:12:09] it fits into it? Because then philosophy and nature. That isn't just this but enables this, you know, very open and sharing so being able to download software free learn to use it on YouTube create stories in for example virtual reality augmented reality without having to face the kind of human barriers really gate keeps that own mediums like Cinema and theater and when you're not from a background where you have. Network or you have any access to that kind of money in those kind of time scales?
It's much more democratic way of being able to be creative.
Vim: [00:12:48] It's so it's so interesting to hear. Have the talk about power through this because yeah, I was having a conversation just yesterday about how tech is or Technologies are way of leveling the playing field and creating a much more urgent a lot more access to things but just because you can access your voice or you can access the platform where you can access the internet doesn't mean you have the skills or tools to do anything with it.
So, I think there's this kind of Tipping Point now of more and more people are becoming Tech enabled, but then kind of Switch that needs to happen from not just being enabled or empowered but to using that to actually make a decision or reach for outcome or build aspiration or whatever. It might be.
Myra: [00:13:36] Yeah. I definitely think there are a number of challenges with it. Well as opportunities and Facilities, like my business partner has a massive Ally and in this world he already. Kind of network, which is important still you know, that's still a thing and when I go to events on still very much a minority in the room in terms of gender or race.
And so those did we have to be very aware that they struck coming reproduce so easily because power is of course so hard to shift, but he traveled to Armenia and there there's a case where young men are conscripted into the army. But what that does is basically all the women have activating so the band System of a Down are from Armenia and they started to invest in the kind of Tech clubs in the country.
And basically these young women be queuing up at nine o'clock in the morning waiting for those doors to open soon as they open they jump onto computers is and they basically start learning
Vim: [00:14:38] hmm.
Myra: [00:14:38] He was working with few young girls are like 15 we quiet unassuming and. A very sort of quick self-critical in a way and basically emerge they knew how to use Adobe Creative Suite like the back of their hand. They knew several like computational languages. They knew how to use Unity games engine and he was like, you know, you should be working for companies. Basically, there's a sort of sideways believing that they were. Yeah, I'll give these young people are earning more at times anymore. Politician in that country.
So this is like a for people who you know people in these areas. We've been traveling on the Balkans a lot working with young people as well who had access to the technology but not the Market. They are barriers area still stigma and culture travel globally, but they've got the tech skills and when they are able to show those which I can get down this stuff and learn it become brilliant at it.
They are competing on a global market. You know, and that allows them to do so much more than without it. So it's immensely liberating what I've seen from traveling on the world and
Vim: [00:15:50] that's really reassuring to hear because I think when you don't get insights like that to understand how.
the needle is shifting you can still make assumptions that small villages in the middle of nowhere that I have internet access still are only using Facebook or so when they're very basic this tool enablers. Not a full-fledged thing that we said that we see over here in England it and it's a really dangerous mind set to be in because you're underestimating the power of the records.
Myra: [00:16:20] Well, yeah, absolutely but on like you. But coming from a very sort of with a little everything going with identity and nationalism. beome more insular your lenses never have returned at least a little bit inwardly. And so I mean everything's open it up and like Nairobi as such a massive creative Community there again Technologies available to them.
But then if you compare that to your like America, which we assume through this like external lens maybe being there and knowing what's going on. In terms of so a lot of young people are using YouTube and the internet something that their homework and to help them. If you don't have access to that which happens in the u.s.
To the point that they've had to in some areas set up school buses for that have Wi-Fi enabled Wi-Fi connected, but those people don't have a home have the right broadband Connections in that area example. It will go on to that bus there was this massive phenomenon of like people going to McDonalds car park.
Vim: [00:17:20] Yeah
Myra: [00:17:21] to do the homework because they couldn't get access to the internet. So as well as it being Democratic there is also divide over there
Vim: [00:17:29] yeah. I mean, it doesn't even happen that far far afield it. Yeah. We're at where I live in Salford the same things happened. There's a McDonald's not that far away.
Yeah, the local residents with complaining about the gangs of young people hanging out around the McDonald's not in it. They're just around it because of the free Wi-Fi.
Myra: [00:17:50] Yeah.
Vim: [00:17:50] They lobbied the McDonald's to change it to need a password.
Myra: [00:17:57] Really?
Vim: [00:17:57] Yeah, but then the young whoever in the group had to get the wifi and rather than seeing that as a positive and a use of like these incredible tech skills.
It was seen as negative kind of delinquent behavor and where you kind of tread on that line of had that have been in the classroom. It would have been celebrated as soon as you jump out of that environment. It's seen as negative.
Myra: [00:18:20] Yeah. Wow, that's really really interesting. It's like what antisocial Behavior as a means of controlling, you know, he's defining this lots of this stuff.
So unprecedented. You need to be having open conversations about it. Not people in power who as we've seen a lot recently are massively disconnected from tech are ,
Vim: [00:18:41] yeah,
Myra: [00:18:42] making these assumptions and decisions that are then demonizing, you know, like hop culture of as you know is like so massive and again like in a society where were kind of falling asleep attaching distancing ourselves.
We feel so powerless way. Back in Breaking the massive system break a big old style.
Vim: [00:19:04] And so when you mentioned before the kind of creativity sex of springing up internationally globally, what do you see the relationship between creativity and Technology because for a long time they were really separate you kind of design something over here came up with some steps and then threw it over the fence and something would happen.
But what do you think the shift has been between those two?
Myra: [00:19:28] Yeah. I mean it's massive. Like in terms of enabling. So now you've got a rather than say you're in cinema you having to rent out like ridiculously expensive equipment really like no one can afford to get you've got your phone in your hand as you know a brilliant camera.
Filmmakers in the eighties and nineties would have died to have that kind of camera in their hand. And yeah, so that's hugely enabling also that means as a swamp of content that yeah might be devoid of maybe art I don't want to kind of there is a labor in creating public but there's also something amazing about how culture coming back to that in that it doesn't have to be perfect, brilliant.
The economics there being an economy within those technologies that if you can afford game's engine software like cryengine.
Vim: [00:20:25] Yeah.
Myra: [00:20:25] It's like this your work efficiently elevated for automatically. You can afford certain subscriptions to. 3D modeling software or textures and things are going to again looks like there's a real craft going on and because I still like you can buy things off the shelf, right? It makes it really good.
Vim: [00:20:44] Yeah,
Myra: [00:20:44] so there is a financial aspect to that. It's not totally Democratic.
Vim: [00:20:49] Yeah. Yeah, and I think. What you were saying before about black people in power being disconnected from what's happening in technology at the moment. I think I agree. But I also think the people around those people in power aren't disconnected which is how we've ended up with the Cambridge Analitica Scandal or you know, this kind of perverse use of technology and platforms to influence and I think with.
The kind of technology that we're seeing becoming more and more normal. So I sent Mom and Dad a 3D rendered image the other day of a bathroom. Yeah, none of it existed. It was all completely computer generated and Mum was likeoh my God, I want that bath and I was that oh, but you know, this doesn't exist.
This is someone's imagination and it is that kind of Disconnect that we're not. That we as a society, we've not made that leap but it's not real.
Myra: [00:21:42] So like understand being able to tell ya this is proof that yeah, if you are familiar with it, yeah, I see then you can sort of see and if you're not then and that opens up a psychological gap.
Oh, yeah.
Vim: [00:21:57] Yeah, yeah, I'm not only guests laugh and you kind of see the video editing tools that happening. Now that pretending that something that is not or whatever. It might be.
Myra: [00:22:09] I mean all could be we I mean have big questions about it what is real and what isn't but how much of your reality and constructed anyway, whoever you know, where the idea that we live in a reality.
Any government Administration so that you actually got to the truth of it propaganda realities been constructed as long as I can remember really? Yeah, so. We are interested in the cuz of that critical thinking so rather than trying to pick apart like they're obviously we should examine like people that get left behind the older generation for example to for many people they stuck or very isolated and by the technology as well because it's been a massive social gap.
Generations one of my coaches and but if we were teaching critical thinking in schools about know we've got fake media with got ya all of this we could critically analyze everything that we're seeing.
Vim: [00:23:16] Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting though because I guess what you're doing is trying to teach that as well as like a different way of interpreting.
Reality through storytelling. Yeah, but you think that kind of is being the people that go through your experiences. You think that then applying that to reality reality?
Myra: [00:23:39] Yeah. So what reality really? Stars and I'll Workshop to and education program stuff is radical question at the heart of the artwork or the story or whatever.
It is saving we always are asking something radically analyzes Where We Are Who We Are what we're doing what it means and then we kind of implicit but can it survive? Thank you know about doing service line work as well and that and our old ways of receiving that pattern of linear medium stuff here is I am the author I am an artist.
This is my work. This is how you understand it, this is what it means In stead we are saying , asking a radical question, we're not trying to answer it. But trying to use our people that are part of this which also is about making accessible to lots of different people. So it's not in a theater. It's not Cinematic kind of Journey it is could be anywhere and it could be any kind of community and we're asking understanding of world and you're an active participant and engaged part of that world.
Vim: [00:24:56] Yeah,
Myra: [00:24:57] and it's you exploring. So when I talk about highly. Well, it's giving you agency to explore that and make the space in that story for you to understand from your perspective or for you to ask questions and to come out with there's a concept in game design talk about emergent Behavior, which is when you set out to create a world or create an experience that there is so much space in there for people to be creative within it.
Yeah, so. When I did some mileage for fair large-scale reality show TV RAR, we have like 20,000 square foot warehouse space we had about 20,000 visitors in the first three months. So rather than thinking of those 20,000 people as to just audience members they are brains that come in and they are analyzing the question of the heart or thinking about the question of the heart of.
this experience which is multi-layered in terms of accessibility you could go and just run through it and just have them and totally entertained by what's happening around you or you can dig a bit deeper and see their themes and understand the question. You can sit in a room with a woman who's an immersive performer who can improv you this world for 20 minutes you know.
Vim: [00:26:13] Yeah,
Myra: [00:26:14] so you can really come at it from many different angles. It's not lofty High reaching concept of. Layers and separate as well. You feel free and you can bring your own stuff to it from the people started to come into something like this asleep lucid dreaming and experience as led by the AI that the question at the heart of it was what is AI? It was spiritual matter subverting the ideas of like
what AI is Miles and serial reflection Humanity or for the feminized one soon and looking as a spiritual entity that can educate us? Yeah, it takes an exponential leap, but we don't understand how that happens. But actually underneath that question, which is what I emerged as the show went on. By using people's kind of ideas in the community online and talking about it and people in the bar talking about it and all of this kind of things that always so unmoored that we want people to any God.
They asking this kind of much more funding that emerged out of people coming to the experience now, I'm talking to them about what they got out.
Vim: [00:27:20] Yeah, so the huge kind of community building elements through this is experience and it's as much about the debate afterwards as it is the experience itself.
Myra: [00:27:29] Absolutely because it's a massive conversation, really
Vim: [00:27:33] and and how was the AR and VR received and how did you go about building that?

Myra: [00:27:39] Yes. Oh really interesting because in terms of like positioning it that is massive thing right because if you put VR at the heart of it. You're automatically alienating a lot of people.
Vim: [00:27:50] Yeah,
Myra: [00:27:50] the tech comes a barrier right and people don't know it are basically like we all are worried about how we look worried about not knowing to do just a massive reassurance excercise that way. And actually it's not about technology it is about the story.
Vim: [00:28:07] Yeah,
Myra: [00:28:07] the questions said that's what you need with a whole campaign around it was leading the debate really otherworldly kind of to be AI character and the VR and AR are part of the layering story and you could arguably do experience without it.
But I am powerful the story elements in wealth building element. it is important if you do integrate tech that merges with me for that specific reason why you're using it. So yeah, this is about AI so it really fits with the but yeah being with us.
Vim: [00:28:43] Yeah, and the the kind of big. Hard-hitting questions. How are you?
Conceptualizing them or is what's your plan of how do I ask if
Myra: [00:28:52] ya like, I think we've all got these questions spinning around our heads and I think when you're in a space of just having more time to think about it, so we're doing Workshop, you know, we asked people to. Slicing and process in the latter half of each session, which is that getting them to think of an idea go through the creative process critically analyze it exploded out and then scale it right down.
So it will ya and given tools to make it. Matt is stocked with first but asking a radical question, right and just presenting that as a moment is quite surprising to some people and you realize that people haven't been asked to make culture. They are sitting in that room not even knowing that they're part of culture that they have a right to make it.
They don't just consume it and that is a massive problem because you know by the end of it for four or five days people are. You know brimming with ideas or questions and things it's about getting to what you care about it either you wait. What wakes you up at 4:00 in the morning what makes you angry, what makes you cry what makes you happy?
I'm sort of getting to that point and then what challenges getting consensus? Yeah groups about what that is, but that's part of it, right? That's no reflection of our where we are. Yeah people care about different things.
Vim: [00:30:19] That's really interesting that kind of passive versus active culture building because we often see that you step into a culture rather than being a part of it.
And yeah, I think as much as technology is empowering. There's like that massive disempowering part which leads to feeling really passive like this is all stuff that just happens around me. I don't have any control over the Facebook algorithm or you know, BBC news or whatever and when years it's interesting, but all of that feeds into the culture that were part of
Myra: [00:30:50] yeah, absolutely and it's this is why we look at the power of the individual within a community and we have a load of
disempowered individuals in a community was of community can't help you. But we take an idea of individualism and everything's a product where it was before say and religions with one God because I can't get a word money. Precusror to having a government with one leader. Oh, yeah. It's also the same thing as a celebrity who's at the top of the chain and we idealize this individual and where we are in terms of individualism.
Right? But if we take that idea and empowered the individual of positive way to then be part of a community who's not from can get movements either see that happening any power. We got you've got like being the amazing side in it or positive movement for social Justice exception very neatly but there's nothing but there's also the other side whic is for example Facebook co-opting the ideas of new power.
Okay partition of participation farms that we engage with the customer language they use language of community like friends and memories and likes and all that. It's complicated but
Vim: [00:32:11] yeah massively so but really really interesting to think about and the when he especially we're talkin about monotheism and then the impact of that on government and then zooming right out and seeing the impact of that on countries and states and communities is really interesting and you can then start to see the natural device and government formation in India versus the US because of the influence of
religion and how you see power dynamics? It's really interesting. And I'm now going to ask you more about the future. So we've spoken a lot about what you're working on now and the essence of what you do is thinking about these questions and how it's going to impact the future of what we do. But how do you see your role in Industry changing over the next 10 15 20 years?
Myra: [00:32:56] Yeah. That's a great question, and I think there are some challenges. Because when you put all these tools at your disposal, right so you become a polymath or so that you have to understand this software. That software in order to create what you need to buy it, which is nothing around that you've got all that your things back also can be a real problem when you feel like are doing everything.
Vim: [00:33:18] Yeah,
Myra: [00:33:19] which is why I sort of collaboration and it's important as well. So in that way IP is a potential challenge. So yeah got teams specializing in all these areas and new Industries and they need your skills. So the job market is totally ill-equipped now the only skill sets and it's cross disciplinary and it's I mean the conceptions of what is an audience.
What is a Critic now? Who is the artist at all kind of falling way and there is you know, there are these categories and these lines are becoming really blurred.
Vim: [00:33:53] Yeah
Myra: [00:33:53] already in a place where it's sort of dismantling and that way at the same time. You're learning skills right, you know in five years this games engine and all this software.
It's going to be totally differentor now AI is doing this part of it and you're learning this part constant curve, which is really motivating great. But also if you didn't think about it too much it can become quite overwhelming. Yeah, which is why we teach design principles and storytelling. Because those things like core skills.
There are universities starting to do this now where they teach the core design stuff and that, you know, these kind of pictures that can be applied across this software
without core skills I suppose. It's undefined what they are. They are changing all the time. You can feel like you're being. Sortta pushed and pulled between update different platforms and new platforms and and but that also presents an opportunity because we can't be an expert.
It's in generally in the field.
Vim: [00:34:53] Yeah
Myra: [00:34:54] AR, we always talk about how there aren't any expert and there are lots of Institutions coming to the mix who are claiming. The experts are claiming to own the space and that is really dangerous because it's really shutting it down. A lot of people actually at the fringes of the stuff is some really exciting stuff going down don't wanna block that with
old school thinking and same people same power structures.
Vim: [00:35:24] Yeah, I think what kind of underpins it is this focus and Conformity and when it was just trying to constantly push people to conform whether its design thinking principles or like the education system or anything like that is kind of this is how we do it now conform to this and then when the next thing is come.
Next thing comes along. I'll tell you what it is. You can conform to that where exactly we need to split it and Empower people to Define that to themselves or to find a community that helps them to figure that out
Myra: [00:35:55] Hugely. I'd like to break things and yeah, you know make a mess of not have to produce like, you know, there are Hollywood is VR has the potential to go one step.
Like a step out of Hollywood basically I've given talks to people who are basically in film and already established kind of producers who are it is directors and there's an ownership, you know, and there's a there's a lack of new thinking or new power thinking around it because it's still about ego authorship ownership and I've had in those rooms
I've had a lot of people ask but how do you basically there were asking how do you let go?
Vim: [00:36:35] Yeah,
Myra: [00:36:35] letting go be creative outcome can be a difficult if you've grown up in like trying to cling to it because so hard to get creative opportunities. It's so impossible to break through at times it feels and and if we shift the mindset to be like hold on open space where everyone is welcome the and.
Everyone can have a voice then. It's much easier to let go because you're building an environment of trust collaboration.
Vim: [00:37:02] Yeah,
Myra: [00:37:02] and we've been robbed of that so much.
Vim: [00:37:04] Yeah
Myra: [00:37:05] that was clinging to things and leave, you know, we're in that mindset and that's like a sort of childlike. You know, mindset in many ways and.
Hopefully there's an element of this that grows in a more emotionally mature way and where we feel Freer to I mean, it's very hard to be creative in those places. Anyway, yes, you've never trust anyone with your work.
Vim: [00:37:26] Yeah cos you are scared. They'll take ownership of the or get the Credit or whatever, but actually the focus should be on what happens next.
It's the creations of itself. It's being ableto jointly do that not take the credit, but I mean we are falling into now a capitalist versus socialist State. This is good foe everyone lets all do it together. No, they want to get paid
Myra: [00:37:54] just like in the creative. We all work at that have been shifted had no problem solving and things like that and you know, it could kind of see where we are.
Mentally when you think about that. It's just a of like, you know, it's my work. It's me.
Vim: [00:38:10] Yeah. Yeah,
Myra: [00:38:11] I did it. I don't think about why we need external validation so much. Yeah, and can you ever get to the point of being able to internally validate ourselves and we're
Vim: [00:38:23] or not needing validation at all.
Myra: [00:38:25] Yeah,
Vim: [00:38:25] love or hate it shouldn't it just is
Myra: [00:38:30] I think it's interesting point about you know arguably like the amount of outrage and rage sort of circling around new media platform you how about forces and expression? That need to be heard and wanted that many people in the communities as our come to grips with the first time and so it's coming out of the sort of like big emotional display of what it is.
And I think that's just part of where we are now. Hopefully, we'll come to place a bit more peace and understanding yeah each other. Yeah. That's yeah. I mean, I think that's where it's different from socialism in that. The individual feels the power of the heart of a community Yeah
Vim: [00:39:18] Yeah a hundred percent and that you're coming up north soon?
Myra: [00:39:22] Yeah, coming up north. Oh, yeah, so I know we've been collaborating with Liverpool John Moores University who started the MA in immerssive Great Tech there and some really cool people working. And so we've been working with them and we run in {inaudible} in their story lab which is aligned to theirs and working a few other universities at the moment.
And hopefully they'll be on board soon and but we're definitely running four - five day course in November and yeah will be we're offering kind of 10 free places for underrepresented groups. Oh. That's a really important thing for us as well.
Vim: [00:40:09] Great. Well, we'll make sure that the link goes out with the podcast and is online cool.
So I always thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much.
Myra: [00:40:18] Yeah, it's really good. Thanks for listening